My body is ready, FFG...
Problem for me is.. this thing is soooo FUGLY.. really don't like it.. honestly, I'd be happy if they don;t do this one...
XG-1 "Star Wing" Assault Gunboat Thread
Stare at this then:
Or this:
The assault gunboat is a bit stubby, but it's just as beautiful as the Lambda shuttle on which it's based.
I think the Empire needs the assault gunboat. We need a middle-weight fighter that can provide some middle ground between the crunchy TIE Fighters and the expensive TIE/Ds and Phantoms. A reliable, steady cannon carrier that fires missiles but is at least a modest dogfighter.
And honestly I'd expect the gunboat and the TIE Avenger to debut tractor beams, as both ships were known to carry beam weapons and the TIE/D doesn't.
There is a reason mine is based more on that version rather than the one in the painting. And what is that godawful thing it is firing at?
Edited by GosricIt's a Dauntless Class Cruiser, which debuted in Star Wars: Rebellion.
FFG's method of stat-ing a ship doesn't allow for a lot of finder detail. In Universe I consider the X wing to be a very well rounded starfighter, having above average firepower, and above average maneuverability, with solid shields and hull. There are absolutely ships that are better in certain categories, but the X-wing makes the B Honor Roll because it is solid in so many categories.
So, on one side I don't think the XG-1 should have as much evade as the X-wing...but it should have more than the shuttle. And there's the rub, 1.5 evade doesn't work.
I'd dial the maneuverability as represented on the dial down a little bit too, take that 4K and make it a 2K
There is also plenty of talk about how tough the shields are. This makes me think 4 hull and 4 shield or 3 hull and 5 shield. The problem is this makes it a B-wing with no barrel roll but 1 extra evade. No, the base attack of 2 vs 3 doesn't offset the evade of 1 v 2.
Aside from revamping the B-wing to have 4 Primary Attack, I say give it 4 shield 4 hull and 1 evade, because I think both the Y-wing and the B-wing are better dogfighters than the shuttle, but they too have 1 evade. I guess the Shuttle probably has 0.7 evade which rounds up to 1 and and XG-1 has1.3 evade which rounds down to 1.
All solid points. We're talking fractions and marginal gains/ losses when it comes to assigning values to the smaller ships now. Especially with so many ships now hitting the dreaded 3 or 1 values.
For the Gunboat, I think the primary attack value is bang on. It relied more on it's ordanance or the utility of it's ion cannons to dish out the pain than it did on it's nose-mounted lasers. For one, I wish their was actually a way to allow it to take Ion Cannons while limit it from taking the HLC, but we got what we got.
Toughness - there's a lot of talk about durability, both hull and shields. 4-4 is equivalent to both Y-Wings AND B-Wings, which is probably fair if we're talking about giving it 1 evade.
That Evade value is the real sticking point for me. We have multiple ways to express elusiveness in a dogfight in game - the actual evade value, the movement dial, the actions available (boost, barrel roll) all contribute to a fighter's dogfighting ability on paper.
We're told the Assault Gunboat is a mediocre dogfighter due to it's low top speed. Fair enough, limit it's speed and manuevers on the dial. But it's definitely more agile in flight than a Y-Wing or even a TIE Bomber for that matter. So how do we represent that in-game? Boost is clearly out do to the fluff about speed. We could give it a barrel roll (we see a LOT of barrel-rolling from the Gunboats in the video, after all), which would synergise well with the Sensor Upgrade but possibly make it a little TOO close to the B-Wing in terms of functionality. We could improve the dial - maybe not in terms of speeds available, but remove some red and add some green - or we could bump it up to the two evade.
I think the XG-1 is closer to the X-Wing in terms of actual manueverability than it is to the Shuttle, Y-Wing or B-Wing. It just lacks the speed. I disagree with the Y-Wing being a better dogfighter than the XG-1 as well - the Y-wing's primary advantage in a dogfight is it's turret.
But yeah. Fractions and margins. It either has an evade value of 1 and an action of some sort to even things out, or it has an evade value of 2. It's a very close call.
Problem for me is.. this thing is soooo FUGLY.. really don't like it.. honestly, I'd be happy if they don;t do this one...
I appreciate everyone has their own perspective but... but... but.. just... no!
Stare at this then:
Mmmmmm now that is very tasty for my eye balls Mmmmmm YES
Well, it'd be easy enough just to make the 'Tractor Beam' a cannon upgrade. This would allow you to put it on the defender as well, which canonically carried it.
Something to remove/reduce/reroll defence dice, I would suggest?
Tractor Beam
Cannon
Range 1-2
Attack: Make a primary weapon attack. You may force the defender to reroll 1 evade die.
Anyway... I like the gunboats. They're nice, pretty ships. I would concur that there's an issue of granularity in the number of evade dice, and would stick at 2. They're not that much less manouvrable than an X-wing, and it helps keep some separation between the gunboat and the B-wing. Besides which, the scale they're slotting into is the Lambda and the Defender - so 2 dice helps them find a 'gap'. I wouldn't give them Evade as, by and large, ships with only two evade dice aren't capable of the evade action*
The big problem is that you don't want it to be 'an Imperial B-wing' or 'A TIE bomber with shields' - which is a problem because that's pretty much what it is...
It also muscles in on the Advanced's 'Imperial X-wing counterpart' territory.
* except for the firespray for some really bizzare reason.
The imperials need more mid-range options in a bad way (21-25 cost). A repaint pack for the the Tie Advanced would help but they will never be the hard hitting workhorse akin to the xwing or bwing that the imperials need.
The Assault gunboat should be statted - 2 atk, 2 def, 3 shield, 3 hull, cost 17-18.
The dial would be no worse than a y-wing.
This would then make it 24-25 with an hlc.
I want to see a good 5 cost cannon too (ideally that is range 1-3)
I was hoping for something like this for wave 5, tho im not dissappointed with the Decimator.
No way the star wing is more manouvrable than a B-Wing!!
The B is on par with the X just a bigger target if you are gunninng at one from the side. One green die as it represents the difficulty of flying the B and that side shot angle.
As for the Star Wing it too should have just the one green die, it's quite a target from the side like a smaller lamda.
Id be tempted to give it the third red die as it does pack quite alot of fire power.
Dile should be something like the Y-Wing/Tie Bomber, maybe even along the lines of the HWK = no K turn.
For hit points, its shields are ment to be quite tough so it should have at least one more than an X and hull maybe one more than a X
Stat line something like this :
3
1
3
3
4 ordinance slots, each additional ordinance is one point less. (something the bomber should have to)
Around 20 points
No way the star wing is more manouvrable than a B-Wing!!
The B is on par with the X just a bigger target if you are gunninng at one from the side. One green die as it represents the difficulty of flying the B and that side shot angle.
As for the Star Wing it too should have just the one green die, it's quite a target from the side like a smaller lamda.
Id be tempted to give it the third red die as it does pack quite alot of fire power.
Dile should be something like the Y-Wing/Tie Bomber, maybe even along the lines of the HWK = no K turn.
u know well that even the y wing has a better dial as b wing right ? + b wing was more of a test fighter that made it in thier product line cause of thier barrel roling abilities and high fire power and ability to carry many torpedos.
Edit; it has a good stat line of 2/2/4/3 i like dat alot the ps 2 card
Edited by SoulCrusherExIt DEFINITELY would not have a primary attack value of 3 - that's already been covered extensively.
I'm still in two minds about the evade value. It's clearly more agile than the Lambda, Y-Wing, B-Wing and maybe even the Bomber. It's much tougher than the X-Wing as well, and close to it's manueverability if not it's speed. 4S/4H (especially if reduced to one evade) or 3S/4H at the worst.
We'll also have to be considerate here to keeping it out of the same trap that the TIE Advanced fell into. 2 attack is usually found on swarmer ships, ships with turrets (and so doesn't get used in favor of the turret) or on ships carrying secondary ordinance, or other juicy upgrades.
I think the Gunboat needs to be a reasonable fighter but without a primary attack higher than 2. The gunboat's biggest strength came out of how versatile of a raider it was, that it could carry ions, missiles, and had shields (and so superseded all other TIEs for raiding missions).
So we can start with 2/2/3/2 and maybe bump the hull up 1 and adjust the dial, using the Y-Wing as a base but with less red? Maybe Banks 1-2 would be green in addition to the straights. No forward 5.
Focus, Target Lock, and I'd say put an evade on it as well. X-Wings don't have these, and removing barrel roll can also make it a little more distinct performance wise than the TIE X1 (Not for the better unfortunately but it helps the character of the craft).
Then Cannons (Obviously), Missile (1-2 perhaps?), and then a System Upgrade slot. The only small ship to have it right now is the TIE Phantom which is a very special case, and the Empire now has to compete against the Common B-Wing which also carries the system slot. I think the Gunboat should have it as well.
I don't think the Beam weapons (Tractor Beam, Jammer) when they arrive should be System upgrades. If they were in their own class of upgrade they'd be much easier to restrict, and so easier to balance. Rather than worrying how broken B-Wings would be with tractor beams and HLCs firing away at helpless TIE Defenders, the Gunboat becomes a utility craft to carry Tractor Beams as part of an Imperial strategy. And since they can't turn on a dime nimble craft would be able to counter them.
So I definitely think that the Assault Gunboat can fill a niche that lacks in the Empire. Now, whether Fantasy Flight wants to give that tool to the Empire or forever give us min-maxers (Fighters versus Defenders), is something I don't think we'll get a straight answer to.
I really, really want this ship for fluff reasons. The Empire used them a lot for long range raids, strikes etc without carrier support. Also they are gorgeous ships. A Sentinal Lander could be an Imperial Huge ship, and give the Rebels an R-41 or something. Or, you know, Y-wing aces with elite skills.
Stare at this then:
Mmmmmm now that is very tasty for my eye balls Mmmmmm YES
Now that is smexy as all get out.
That's a beautiful ship!
So third times the charm....Kept accidently closing the window while shifting through tabs....
Sorry about the threadcromancy but after playing some Tie Fighter, thank you GOG, and looking at some of the previews for Scum and Villainy faction, it appears that through the powers of counts as we can field fairly decent proxies for our beloved assault gunboat. I'm personally think Y-Wings with a specific load out of BTL-A4 titles, and Ion turret permanently fixed forward and an R2 astromech to give me a little bit more generous dial than the standard Y-Wing. No of course this is a problem if I'm trying to field the gunboat with other Imperial ships, but so long as you fly a pure Gunboat list, like some sort of independent raiding squadron, no one should really complain. I know it isn't ideal but it does present an interesting opportunity. I am also considering running Tie Avengers as E-Wings, though the fact I have to carry torpedoes instead of missiles does make me a bit sad.
Tie avenger and gunboat will come eventually it's the rebels that are almost out of ships now.
The rebels still have the K-Wing, T-Wing and V-Wing to come ... is there a VW-Wing?
V-wing isn't rebellion era, k wing is new Jedi era and that no longer exists because of the new films, and the t wing is an a-wing with torpedoes.
I'd like to see them get the starchaser.
Ehh, the K-wing is within the timeline, showing up not too much later than the E-wing. I think they are tending to think Rebellion era is pre-NJO.
Seems like only ugly small ships are left for the rebels nevertheless ...
The good news is:
According to this page: http://www.swcombine.com/rules/?Fighters
there are quite a few fighters left.
It looks almost the same size as the shuttle. Why not make it a large base.
it's only 10 meters in length.