If we have 99 books saying this and 1 book saying that, I know which one is the "odd man out".

Yep.. weg is defunct and wotc weren't renewing, so FFG are the odd one out by hokding the liscence and saying how things go (with lucasfilm approval of course).

And seeing how Lucasfilm does vet everything that FFG publishes, it stands to reason that Lucasfilm is fine with FFG's take on the TIE Defender not being quite the uber-ship that the fanbois want it to be.

Regarding the E-Wing if they really wanted a rebel strike interceptor in the AOR era I wish they would have gone with the T-Wing, which was long established as originally having been a rebel fighter. IMO The E-Wings and T-Wings are similar but the E-Wing came out later originally so it was more advanced, more powerful, and more expensive.

I actually have a soft spot for the T-Wing just because I think it looks really sleek! It was ridiculously fragile and a cheap compromise between the X-Wing and the A-Wing, but in terms of looks I absolutely adore it. It's so ... viper'ish .

Yeah for some reason, unknown even to me, I have massive soft spots for the T-Wing and the Novasword. A couple of years ago my group tried rotating GMs for a campaign and it quickly became common knowledge to the group that if I was running a starfighter scene one or both of those fighter models would show up. Another time my PC was commander of a roving rebel fleet which was assigned to to convince the Empire that it was the main Alliance fleet. We were given control of a few Alliance front companies for income than told to supply our own needs. The T-Wings and Novaswords became the bulk of our fighter wings as time passed though we used a lot of the Independent fighter models from Galaxies and the more traditional rebel fighter models as well.

The Novasword I actually had to look up.

I just remember ages ago one of my characters managed to lead his own little company, and for security I got a squadron of cheap, used T-Wings. Ah, nostalgia.

Most of my Star Wars roleplaying actually occurred with Imperial characters, though, so I'm more familiar with various TIEs etc. That being said, my most recent game would have been about the crew of a Sector Ranger patrol boat . Shame it never took off, would've been something different for sure.

And seeing how Lucasfilm does vet everything that FFG publishes, it stands to reason that Lucasfilm is fine with FFG's take on the TIE Defender not being quite the uber-ship that the fanbois want it to be.

Lucasfilm also vetted the previous Defender. It also said "games are games, we're not too concerned with stats".

Lucasfilm also vetted a whole lot of silly ideas in general, doesn't mean they're popular - your opinion on the original Defender being a good example.

That derogatory label you're passing out is getting a bit stale, though. People who appreciate a bit of consistency aren't necessarily "fanbois" of anything save continuity. I for example still think the T/D has too many wings to look cool. I much prefer the classic Interceptor - ideally the upgraded version with shields and missile pods.

Because, if you've played the game, you will know there are only 2 sides represented in it. Would you have preferred they labeled it as an Imperial fighter? These aren't d20 miniatures with a large range of sets/sides. Until they come out with a new expansion game, there will always only be Rebels and Imperials.

Which is why they've made the E-Wing a Rebel fighter. I fail to see your point.

It was right here....

If next year FFG releases the Fury-class (130 ABY) for it's miniature game, are we now going to claim it is a Rebellion-era starfighter? It's a mini for a tactical game, not an RPG campaign. I took the availability of the E-Wing in the X-Wing miniature game as simply because it is fun to do so with no claim to a change at all of the canon for it's in-universe availability.

- change the interesting ship so that it fits into your game

The most likely solution, one should assume, is the first option, but FFG went with the third.

(editted) Who says FFG went for the third? Where did they state that? I fail to see any evidence from FFG itself that suggests that is what they did and not just simply plug a non-Rebel era ship into a mini game for fun and to make money. That's what game companies do.

Can you link me the information about the E-Wing where FFG actually states the E-Wing was produced during the Rebel era? The last I looked that doesn't exist. All you have is it was placed on the Rebel side in a tactical game which only had Rebel and Imperial sides to choose from. I could place several links of prior Star Wars sources that say the E-Wing was produced post Rebellion. Where is your link?

Here is what FFG has said thus far:

The E-wing was designed to match or exceed the performance of the X-wing in every respect, and the E-Wing Expansion Pack for X-Wing™ introduces a starfighter that combines the best of the X-wing’s firepower and durability with the A-wing’s speed and maneuverability. With an E-wing miniature sculpted faithfully at 1/270 scale, four ship cards, five upgrade cards, maneuver dial, and tokens, this expansion comes with everything you need to pursue entirely new tactics in your X-Wing battles!

Nothing about when it was produced and probably never will be since X-wing is a tactical miniature game and not something with more depth like EotE where that stuff is important. So until FFG says something differently (such as in a future RPG release), we are left with several sources saying the E-wing was produced post-Rebellion and 0 saying it was produced in the Rebellion era.

We also have a glimpse of a pilot card with Corran Horn flying an E-wing. In the stories we have of Corran Horn, he didn't fly an E-wing until well after the Rebellion. Are we supposed to alter Corran's story and place him in an E-wing during the Rebellion era to make it fit the appearance in the mini game? That would be silly. To me a miniature game is really nothing about telling a story, but fighting imaginary battles. They don't need to fit some timeline like an RPG campaign probably should. I'm completely fine having E-wings battle TIE fighters in a mini game without once considering when the E-wing was first produced, but I will stick with the E-wing not showing up until post-Endor in my RPG campaign since that is what ALL of the sources on its production have to say about that.

Not having to deal with that kind of attitude is precisely why Disney have just chucked the EU in a woodchipper.

Can you link me the information about the E-Wing where FFG actually states the E-Wing was produced during the Rebel era? The last I looked that doesn't exist. All you have is it was placed on the Rebel side in a tactical game which only had Rebel and Imperial sides to choose from. I could place several links of prior Star Wars sources that say the E-Wing was produced post Rebellion. Where is your link?

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4825

Maybe you simply missed that FFG also said this:

The E-wing joins the X-wing and B-wing as another Rebel heavy hitter , but it opens and occupies the next tier up. It’s more expensive than both the X-wing and B-wing, but it offers you more options for actions, upgrades, and maneuvers. It also has a little longer life, thanks to the third agility die, though you still can’t let it be targeted by the entire opposing fleet, or all those points will be wasted.

We also have a glimpse of a pilot card with Corran Horn flying an E-wing. In the stories we have of Corran Horn, he didn't fly an E-wing until well after the Rebellion. Are we supposed to alter Corran's story and place him in an E-wing during the Rebellion era to make it fit the appearance in the mini game?

It appears so!

Keep in mind, Corran's story is now non-canon. As long as Lucasfilm doesn't intervene because somebody there has special plans for him, FFG can do whatever they want with it.

To me a miniature game is really nothing about telling a story, but fighting imaginary battles. They don't need to fit some timeline like an RPG campaign probably should.

Exactly! Which is why I have just said that they could have easily, and probably should have simply declared the X-Wing game a multi-era project and throw in anything they wanted. Including the E-Wing, but as a New Republic fighter with the appropriate insignia on its card.

But again: that's not what they did.

Not having to deal with that kind of attitude is precisely why Disney have just chucked the EU in a woodchipper.

If so, it was a futile and rather naive move. As long as you have a canon, you will have sticklers for detail, so all they achieved with this move would be to reset the process and gain a couple weeks of peace until people begin arguing over the material released under Disney's reign.

But I don't think even they would be so dumb. My money is on some silly market analysis that points to reboots and remakes being "in" this decade.

That looks more like an example of option 2, not 3- they're opening up their two-side game to other eras, but not bothering to changing the name of was is for all intents and purposes the same side (rebel/new republic)

Could be, but why would they not label them in their correct way to avoid such confusion? I mean, they're selling this game to Star Wars fans ; it's a bit naive to assume such a topic wouldn't ever come up with a significant number of players.

I guess we'll know for sure once we see Sith Interceptors and TIE Predators showing up.

I suspect that they didn't want to introduce an Imperial uberfighter without giving the Rebel players something equivalent.

So, assuming your options are nerf or remove the TIE defender, resurrect the E-Wing design from the defunct EU to use as an advanced Rebel type or invent a entirely new Rebel super prototype, what would people prefer?

Personally, I think the E-Wing is just about the only vaguely attractive 'rebel' type fighter the old EU ever managed to come up with, so recycling the design works for me.

Could be, but why would they not label them in their correct way to avoid such confusion? I mean, they're selling this game to Star Wars fans ; it's a bit naive to assume such a topic wouldn't ever come up with a significant number of players.

I guess we'll know for sure once we see Sith Interceptors and TIE Predators showing up.

What confusion? There's EU advanced fightercraft in our skirmish game! This one's on the imperial side (T/D) and that one is on the Rebel side! (Ewing) Is it worth the confusion to label a single fighter as a third faction just because it's not available in a certian time period?

EDIT: Case in point, Corran being a Rebel pilot... when he didnt even join the rebelion until Xwing: Rogue Squadron, several years after endor.

The E-wing joins the X-wing and B-wing as another Rebel heavy hitter , but it opens and occupies the next tier up. It’s more expensive than both the X-wing and B-wing, but it offers you more options for actions, upgrades, and maneuvers. It also has a little longer life, thanks to the third agility die, though you still can’t let it be targeted by the entire opposing fleet, or all those points will be wasted.

Still not seeing where FFG says the E-wing was produced during the Rebellion, which was my argument. In my post I even mentioned the Rebel and Imperial sides in the X-wing game as the only options. I own the game and have played it. So yeah I didn't "simply miss it" since I actually talked about it up thread.

IN THE X-WING MINI GAME there are two generic sides, Rebel and Imperial. The E-wing, which will later be part of the New Republic, was of course thrown onto the Rebel side instead of the Imperial side.

What confusion? There's EU advanced fightercraft in our skirmish game! This one's on the imperial side (T/D) and that one is on the Rebel side! (Ewing) Is it worth the confusion to label a single fighter as a third faction just because it's not available in a certian time period?

EDIT: Case in point, Corran being a Rebel pilot... when he didnt even join the rebelion until Xwing: Rogue Squadron, several years after endor.

Yep.

Another thing is why did they make A'baht a fighter pilot? Its been a long time since I read the novels he appeared in but I don't recall anything indicating that he was ever a fighter pilot much less one in the Alliance or NR. He was over 80 years old when the Alliance formed and the only military roles we know that he had were as a fleet commander in his homeworld's defense force and later the NR and, a gunship captain at Endor commanding one of the two ships his homeworld sent in response the the Alliance's call for aid pre-Endor,

@RogueCorona: Because they thought people would recognise the name.

@Sturn: Rebel heavy hitter means to me that it was used by the Rebels, not the New Republic. Some of us do make a fuss about that detail.

back to topic:

I do remember the TIE/D from the games, even got the Lego model of it. I found it refreshing that the Empire gave up on it's old doctrine of expendable troops and did what it did best: It made one of the meanest ships in history.

Very powerful, maybe cheesy, but they had the ressources to do so.

The profile in Saga Edition was powerful too, but paled to the later power creep (X-Twintail anyone?)

So i kinda expect it to be fast, agile, hard-hitting, with medium shields and armor, and not too much HT and it's limited hyperspace-capability. And very expensive.

Style-wise i prefer the TIE/IN, i like those 4 dagger-like wings.

Yeah but the X-83 came out more than 100 years after the TIE Defender. If it wasn't more powerful than the designer wasn't doing his or her job right. Even with the slower advancement of technology in Star Wars it would be like someone designing a fighter roughly the equivalent of a F-20 or MIG 25 today

I would not complain about the X-83 if it would not hit harder and be able to take more damage than most freighters that came out at the same time. Just compare it to the Predator, the lastest TIE in the Saga setting. That one is weaker than the X-83 in every respect except speed in starship scale. Came out at the same time ...

So, assuming your options are nerf or remove the TIE defender, resurrect the E-Wing design from the defunct EU to use as an advanced Rebel type or invent a entirely new Rebel super prototype, what would people prefer?

Personally? I'd have said "sod it". There does not have to be 1:1 counterpart to the TIE-Defender, just like there doesn't have to be a 1:1 counterpart to the Millennium Falcon. The ships have points values; that's how you are meant to balance your forces. Not by just copying your opponent's list.

An X-Wing is not equal to a TIE-Fighter, so there does not need to be something equal to the T/D.

If you want to add new Rebel ships, why not pick an interesting one that actually belongs into the era? You can hardly say that FFG has exhausted all their options here!

Is it worth the confusion to label a single fighter as a third faction just because it's not available in a certian time period?

Let me put it this way: Why not?

It'd have been the easiest way out of the problem, I think. And it's been done before.

And if you haven't seen the confusion I alluded to, there's a 5-page thread by a confused player on the very first page of this forum titled "E-Wing now a Rebel fighter?"

It may help at least a little if you think about the comparison similar to the classic X-Wing vs TIE-Fighter, making it a little nod to the franchise's history? Except now the TIEs at least have shields and a hyperdrive, too. The Fel-Empire was still relying on swarm tactics and elite pilot training to overcome the technological advantage of GA starfighters. And they made up for the lack of oomph in the Predators by building the biggest, baddest capital ships.

You could perhaps regard it as a return to the old "Imperial style" of cheap but nimble fighters and huge but slow star destroyers.

Also, I think the X-83 was not "yet" the main starfighter of the Alliance (well, depending on the point in time); that'd have been the CF9 Crossfire. Still superior to the Predator (again except as in speed and size), but not by as much.

So, assuming your options are nerf or remove the TIE defender, resurrect the E-Wing design from the defunct EU to use as an advanced Rebel type or invent a entirely new Rebel super prototype, what would people prefer?

Personally? I'd have said "sod it".

I for one am stunned, Stunned! to see someone... sympathetic to the New Order suggest the Empire should have exclusive rights to have a super advanced next gen awesome fighter.

:-)

If people are not keen on re-purposing the E-Wing design to serve as a Rebel dancing partner for the TIE Defender, I'd be quite happy to see FFG hire someone to work up an all new Rebel design to serve that purpose.

Something like these would do!

I personally would have preferred a new rebel fighter myself..

So, assuming your options are nerf or remove the TIE defender, resurrect the E-Wing design from the defunct EU to use as an advanced Rebel type or invent a entirely new Rebel super prototype, what would people prefer?

Personally? I'd have said "sod it".

I for one am stunned, Stunned! to see someone... sympathetic to the New Order suggest the Empire should have exclusive rights to have a super advanced next gen awesome fighter.

:-)

If people are not keen on re-purposing the E-Wing design to serve as a Rebel dancing partner for the TIE Defender, I'd be quite happy to see FFG hire someone to work up an all new Rebel design to serve that purpose.

Something like these would do!

Those look like the Decepticons Thrust and Ramjet to my old eyes.

Sorry if someone already mentioned this. The E-Wing had to be produced in the New Republic era. I can confidently say this because it required the R7 astromech which specifically synced with that fighter. The R7 wasn't produced until Dark Empire.

Sorry if someone already mentioned this. The E-Wing had to be produced in the New Republic era. I can confidently say this because it required the R7 astromech which specifically synced with that fighter. The R7 wasn't produced until Dark Empire.

That was before things changed.

Question... when did the Imperial Reminant STOP calling the New Republic, Rebels?

Because any NR fighter before that point is a Rebel craft... from a certain point of view.

A certain point of view?!

If people are not keen on re-purposing the E-Wing design to serve as a Rebel dancing partner for the TIE Defender, I'd be quite happy to see FFG hire someone to work up an all new Rebel design to serve that purpose.

But why do you think there has to be a Rebel equal to the T/D? Where is the Imperial equal to the X-Wing?

Why not simply give the Rebels another ship - either weaker or stronger - that fits better into this time and already exists? It wouldn't necessarily have to be a fighter itself, after all.

And this has nothing to do with my "sympathies for the New Order", but simply my appreciation for consistency.

I mean, of course it comes down to how you interpret that game, but from all I can see it's supposed to take place in the Rebellion Era, so personally I'd expect Rebellion Era ships there.

Not saying that your method isn't "just as good", mind you. It's not what *I* would prefer, and I've long since held the opinion that too many authors are inventing new ships and weapons and species when there was already something that would've served just as well. But with the EU kicked into the bin, there certainly is potential to populate that list anew, with entirely new creations.

Newly invented ships at least do not come with any "baggage" in regards to expectations from fans. Though I'd probably still wonder at the Rebellion having any counterpart for the T/D when it was supposed to be the most advanced fighter of its time. That is simply the baggage of the Defender.

There are a couple of TIES which I could see being argued as being equal to the X-Wing, namely the Hunter and Oppressor models. And while the Hunter hasn't been scheduled to appear in X-Wing AFAIK it will be appearing in AOR so a later appearance in X-Wing wouldn't surprise me.