I like that system, it's easy and pretty quick to use. Would you use it for every requested item, or in general? I feel like it would work best as a roll for each specific item, which I think is how you did it.

I would be interested in testing the system too, with my group.

EDIT: Just thinking about the system again, I worry it may be too easy to get good equipment too quick. Take for example, the inferno pistol (arguably the best handgun in the game). This would be rolling at automatically a 9+ with the lowest level trader, and 8+ if you don't mind a poor quality gun at that. So just with a small hindrance and the least connected merchants, you already have a 30% chance of the weapon being available. This becomes even easier if you are in a town with a better logistical supply, to the point it is almost 50/50 for a 2d10+10 damage pistol.

Well this is were the joy of a background GM mechanic comes in. You can fudge the rules and use your common sense. I personally would say the anything very rare or more is only available at GM's discretion.

You can delay acquisitions while the trader tries to acquire the item (meaning the group has to find the same trader again later no matter whether the trader manages to find the item or not,) or offer an alternative item that the trader can find instead.

Of course you can just roll a dice and say "no" whatever the result says.

I think it'd generally be better to just use the rating to pre-gen an inventory for minor NPC traders beforehand for general trading but specific item enquiries could also be handled wit the same system. (Maybe add a modifier for time spent searching?)

Anyway update live, if rather unpolished.

More quirks (advantages and diasadvantages, 16 now)

Started write up of trading system.

I agree with you there, I think the rarer stuff should ultimately be the GM's decision, and the other stuff, being transparent, is up to him or her as well. I assume that sort of caveat will be in the rules for the next revision.

Looking over the weapons and armor, it struck me a bit odd that the flak armor and carapace have the same availability. While I agree that flak should be rarer than in OW for obvious reasons, I think those same reasons would make carapace even more rare than they are in OW. Because as it stands, the only reason to get flak is the price difference.

My last worry is that of the character creation. Looking at it gives the impression of how easy it is to abuse, with the way aptitudes and the backgrounds work. Looking over it, I can make a character with +11 BS and the aptitudes to make +20 in advances as cheap as possible. With a good roll or reroll, you can easily edge a character up into almost Space Marine levels of Ballistic Skill, without modifiers. The same goes for any other characteristic.

I mention these facts not to nitpick relentlessly, but because my group of gaming buddies are all ruthless powergamers who love nothing more than to squeeze as much of an advantage out of the game as they can, whether or not it fits lore or common sense.

Carapace availability: It's not wrong, a full suit of matching tailored flak is just as hard to get hold of as a single carapace armour component. Notice that a full light carapace suit is a step rarer (Extremely rare) and a full suit of stormie carapace is even rarer (Near unique.) Even so I see your point and the chestplate (the exclusive preserve of officers don't you know?) has been increased to extremely rare.

As for powergaming, I don't care if people want to make one-dimensional characters that's their problem but I've adjusted the starting stats to 2d10+10 base, this should balance the amount of plus you can pile on with quirks but mostly it's because random starting-level scum in the underhive are not as well trained, physically fit and fiercely motivated as an imperial guardsman. (Although I may consider a restructure of the stat-buy costings to make more than four levels available.)

was goign to post this last night but forgot to hit "post" before turning pc off.

I think that makes the armor a whole lot harder to get, which would make sense seeing as these are random sleazeballs in the middle of nowhere.

As for the character creation, I think that balances out quite nicely, and provides a better sense of progression.

After those changes, what else is there to do? Besides statting up new weapons/items, maybe sections on Necromunda fluff? Like what sorts of things you could run into, what the actual Underhive is like, what people do to survive, etc.

Also, I have acquired a Necromunda Bestiary, with entries for all types of creatures, spiders, plants, and fungi. Perhaps a bestiary section would be appropriate?

A bestiary would indeed be appropriate.

basically what`s left is this.

Flufffing up: this is probably the part I`m looking forward to most. Importantly (and to my knowledge unprecedented to date) I have to describe the great houses of Necromunda from an outsiders perpecttive. Not the necromunda rulebooks propoganda poster "join us" but the wary oft-beaten victim`s "avoid if possible."

Writing a subsistance system (an idea I`ve had kicking about for a while now) that motivates players to eat and drink or suffer penalties from hunger and thirst. This will also be a spur mechanic the avoid adventures from stalling. After all the reason these scum put their lives in danger is to feed themselves not to save up and buy a pair of shoulder mounted MIU lascannons and fancy bling.

Integraing all non-weapon items with the trading system ammo, clothing, food, drink, drugs and other random curiosities (this will take a while and involve statting up new inventions.)

Writing the "playing the game" and "GMs toolkit"sections detailing adventure seeds themes and some example locations and NPCs.

I meant to ask about a food mechanic, I too thought that was a good idea to keep things moving along, as well as keeping the players poor. There is a lot of good gear that can be had, but they should have to be choosy with how they spend their money.

As for the Bestiary, I am already ahead of you. I've spent a good couple hours converting the Bestiary I found into something we can use. I will share it with you as soon as it's done.

Awesome. A bestiary would be a valuable addition to the project.

Writing a subsistance system (an idea I`ve had kicking about for a while now) that motivates players to eat and drink or suffer penalties from hunger and thirst.

You could perhaps take a page from Shadowrun's "Lifestyles" here. It's probably too much micromanagement to demand regular purchases and consumption of food and drinks to be played out, but it would easily be possible to come up with something like "monthly expenses" that affect stuff like Characteristics and recovery times.

(In SR, Lifestyles are basically a "mix and match" toolkit for people to calculate living costs by selecting from a range of options for various categories such as how the place you live in looks like, and of course what you eat. The condition of your home also affects how likely you are to get molested by loud neighbours or even criminals trying to steal your stuff - though gangs tend to provide their own security)

New version, not alot of real changes but a lot of lost parts now restored (I had some computer issues and lost a few days.)

Hi,

Not to be a pain but I would greatly increase the cost of a Storm Bolter. The weapon is vastly more powerful than say a heavy stubber.
I would also reverse the costs of the Flamer and Handflamer.

S.

I think the Trusty Sidearm/Cursed Sidearm thing should be dropped from scarce to average, or the bolt pistol be increased from scarce to rare. Otherwise, it makes it quite possible for everyone to start with a common quality bolt pistol (that isn't unreliable) and not even have to worry about trying to get new weapons.

New version 17/6/14

Nothing major to report.

Fiddled with availablitites and costs.

Changed intro fluff layout and content slightly

Generall faffing about and ammo costing underway.

Dropping back in to say that I am still working on the Bestiary (I was on a trip, unfortunately) so that is still coming along. I have all the plants finished, I just need to add in the animals section of it to have it completed.

As for the rules newly posted, I am a bit unsure of the ammo prices per unit. For example, is it 2 per 10 bullets? What about the difference between charge packs and charge cells? If the bullets work the way I just mentioned, does that make it 10 per Bolt shell? Finally, it seems that plasma/melta weapons are vastly more cost effective than any other weapon, considering how rare and expensive the guns are themselves.

Just my two cents on that last part, I know the ammo section is still WIP but that was something that was quite confusing.

Lastly, the way the choosing aptitudes is worded leaves much to be desired. I know what you are trying to say, but it is quite confusing trying to understand it from the text as written. Perhaps a simplification is in order?

Following a few runs through the chargen system with a buddy I`ll be increasing the base stats upto +15 at least if not back to +20. (his rolled stats ranaged from 17 to 22 which are hardly inspiring.)

Considering making an alternative use for unspent quirk points to give them greater value and make players consider piling on disadvantages. Possibly equipment packages.

Any suggestions as to what stating experiece should be would be appreciated I`m thinking maybe a thousand would fill the ability gap of not having starting spec abilities?

As for ammo costing They are just adaptions of the DH ones at the moment they will all be readjusted one I get the maths for cost per shot down.

I even drew a table to spell out aptitudes, how much easier does it get? (Still I`ll take another look at it.)

Following a few runs through the chargen system with a buddy I`ll be increasing the base stats upto +15 at least if not back to +20. (his rolled stats ranaged from 17 to 22 which are hardly inspiring.)

Considering making an alternative use for unspent quirk points to give them greater value and make players consider piling on disadvantages. Possibly equipment packages.

Any suggestions as to what stating experiece should be would be appreciated I`m thinking maybe a thousand would fill the ability gap of not having starting spec abilities?

As for ammo costing They are just adaptions of the DH ones at the moment they will all be readjusted one I get the maths for cost per shot down.

I even drew a table to spell out aptitudes, how much easier does it get? (Still I`ll take another look at it.)

I guess one way to make people take more disadvantages is make all the advantages more expensive, so that getting more than one advantage requires taking at least one disadvantage.

Maybe for characteristics it could be 1d10 + 1d5 +20? or 3d5 + 20? The second one would put everyone in the mid to high twenties, which I think is an acceptable place for joe shmo the hive scum.

Reading over your aptitudes section was confusing, as you didn't explain how it was supposed to work, really. The chart doesn't help much, I'm afraid. At least for me, and I have a much better grasp of the rules than the rest of my group does.

I had advantages cost more in an earlier draft but it struck me as unfair that taking a -6 penalty couldn`t buy you a +6 elsewhere.

Originally I had a major and minor quirk system where you had to balance every advantage you bought with a disadvantage (a major could be balanced by two minors and vice versa) like the Serenity roleplay game.

As for the aptitude picking I`ll have another read through but basically:

You pick four characteristic aptitudes in descending order of how important they are to your character.

The first aptitude gains +5 to it`s stat and the stat`s secondary aptitude e.g. Ballistic skill aptitude is picked you gain +5 BS and Finesse aptitude.

The second Aptitude also gains it`s associated secondary aptitude e.g. Toughness aptitude picked you gain Defence aptitude

...and so on as shown on the table.

Had you put that description of the aptitude system in there, it wouldn't be a problem

I am running a test adventure for ON tonight with some friends, I will let you know how it goes.

Ran my own little test game on Saturday noticed a few issues that were immediately obvious.

1. I hadn`t put in starting XP (tried 800 but would proably beef that up to 1000-1200 ish in future)

2. I hadn`t put any kind of limits on starting gear but cost.

3. Might need make some of the the quirk rues a little ore robust to avoid exploits. (like taking a cursed keepsake and then throwing it away for two free exta points.)

4. Most obvious thing last, incomplete gear listing seriously limiting equipmet.

My session may or may not happen tonight, depending on if people can make it. Why would the experience need to be so high? Part of the fun is watching your character get better over time, after all.

I have noticed that the quirks system could be easily abused, but it should be fine. The group's powergamer is in Japan so I'm not worried.

What needs to be added?

EDIT: So the session had only two guys show up, but I adjusted accordingly and we went for it anyway. They got through everything just fine, the longest part of character creation was deciding on Quirks and then buying equipment.

I houseruled a couple things:

1. Characteristics were rolled as 3d5 + 20. This gave them pretty average starting stats, but with the quirks and aptitude bonus they were in the high 30's for some choice characteristics.

2. Cybernetics from the Bionic Enhancement advantage were only the Scarce ones in OW; this was to prevent a character from randomly having a baleful eye or something like that. My player went with a bionic arm, since it was a mostly flavor advantage rather than an actual advantage.

3. Trusty Sidearm required the gun to be bought, in addition to being Average or better. Didn't have him roll for availability, though.

4. Cursed Sidearm didn't give bonuses. I didn't think it was much of a disadvantage if you could still do 1d10 more damage or hit them in an already injured spot.

5. Starting gear had to be bought, of course, but with a merchant rating of 0.

6. Wounds were generated as 1d10 + 5.

The players completed their first session, albeit both were quite critically damaged. They liked being able to build their characters however they wanted to, and it was interesting to see the concepts they came up with. Neither one abused the character creation system, but down the line I can see my other players definitely doing that.

Initial experience needs to be so high because there are no starting skills or talents except those mentioned in quirks as of yet. and starting characters should have at least two or three of each. (Skills should be a whole lot more important in ON.)

I houseruled a couple things:

1. Characteristics were rolled as 3d5 + 20. This gave them pretty average starting stats, but with the quirks and aptitude bonus they were in the high 30's for some choice characteristics.

2. Cybernetics from the Bionic Enhancement advantage were only the Scarce ones in OW; this was to prevent a character from randomly having a baleful eye or something like that. My player went with a bionic arm, since it was a mostly flavor advantage rather than an actual advantage.

3. Trusty Sidearm required the gun to be bought, in addition to being Average or better. Didn't have him roll for availability, though.

4. Cursed Sidearm didn't give bonuses. I didn't think it was much of a disadvantage if you could still do 1d10 more damage or hit them in an already injured spot.

5. Starting gear had to be bought, of course, but with a merchant rating of 0.

6. Wounds were generated as 1d10 + 5.

1. This only produces a range of 23-35 (as opposed to 22-40) by FFG's own reckoning 26-35 is the average for humanity so I think the higher range is justified.

2. The entry actually states that the bionic must be common qulaity and only a limb or sense (basically only bionic arms, legs, eyes, ears, tongues or noses) not fancy variants thereof.

3. Trusty sidearms are chosen after you buy your gear. (we ran into this too.)

4. I'm kind of wavering on this quirk, if there isn't a reason to use the cursed weapon rather than just throw it away, it's ripe for exploiting. I may roll both these quirks back to a previous version (trusty and cursed weapons having a temporary fate point that can only be spent while using the weapon.)

5.This is exactly how I handle it just never found it's way into the document (great minds eh?)

6. Yeah this is basically what we did. (Albeit with our house rule of adding your TB to wounds on top of this.)

I ran a basic "so you're in a pub" game which ended up with our group's three heaviliy armed drunkards bursting into a nobleman's house to collect a *****'s bar tab (a ***** who turned out to be the sickly old nobleman's young, beautiful and incredibly bored trophy wife.) This led to a scene of staggering akwardness until she paid them a small fortune to never come back.

In the process they insulted a deadly (job giving) bounty hunter, assaulted a pair of doormen, harrassed a (job giving) guilder, broke into a flophouse and paid 10 credits for a bar tab that they hadn't accrued because they were too stupid to argue with me.

To top it all off they will still only have 35 credits between them after they pay of the *****'s tab at the bar, Butte's hole.

Initial experience needs to be so high because there are no starting skills or talents except those mentioned in quirks as of yet. and starting characters should have at least two or three of each. (Skills should be a whole lot more important in ON.)

1. This only produces a range of 23-35 (as opposed to 22-40) by FFG's own reckoning 26-35 is the average for humanity so I think the higher range is justified.

2. The entry actually states that the bionic must be common qulaity and only a limb or sense (basically only bionic arms, legs, eyes, ears, tongues or noses) not fancy variants thereof.

3. Trusty sidearms are chosen after you buy your gear. (we ran into this too.)

4. I'm kind of wavering on this quirk, if there isn't a reason to use the cursed weapon rather than just throw it away, it's ripe for exploiting. I may roll both these quirks back to a previous version (trusty and cursed weapons having a temporary fate point that can only be spent while using the weapon.)

5.This is exactly how I handle it just never found it's way into the document (great minds eh?)

6. Yeah this is basically what we did. (Albeit with our house rule of adding your TB to wounds on top of this.)

I ran a basic "so you're in a pub" game which ended up with our group's three heaviliy armed drunkards bursting into a nobleman's house to collect a *****'s bar tab (a ***** who turned out to be the sickly old nobleman's young, beautiful and incredibly bored trophy wife.) This led to a scene of staggering akwardness until she paid them a small fortune to never come back.

In the process they insulted a deadly (job giving) bounty hunter, assaulted a pair of doormen, harrassed a (job giving) guilder, broke into a flophouse and paid 10 credits for a bar tab that they hadn't accrued because they were too stupid to argue with me.

To top it all off they will still only have 35 credits between them after they pay of the *****'s tab at the bar, Butte's hole.

I see what you mean about initial experience and the skills. I gave them 600 xp as starting, but I will consider bumping that up to give them more options for starting builds.

1. I knew that it would give human averages for characteristic rolls, and that decision was intentional. My reason being that these characters are average human beings, who may be a bit better (or worse) than average due to their origin and personal quirks, as opposed to some random intrinsic number. Fluffy reasons besides, it allows the players to be more or less average while choosing the areas they want their character to be a little better or worse in through the advantages/origin mechanics. The original rolls may be low, but that's to offset the chance that a heap of char gen bonuses could elevate them to Space Marine levels of skill - right at the start of the game.

2. And that's essentially what I had them do. Scarce bionics are the Arms, Legs, Cranial Armor, and Vocal implant. I allowed Cybernetic Senses, as well. The only useful one in that group is Cranial Armor, and not very helpful at that.

3 & 4. You could say that the cursed weapon must be kept on the person at all times, or that it is a -20 willpower test to use a different weapon.

5. It seemed to make the most sense, so I'm glad we both thought of it

6. I should have thought of adding the TB, so I might have them do that for the next session. As it stands, one player rolled a one and now has six wounds (lol) which kind of fit his character concept of a more intellectual-themed scumbag.

That sounds like quite the scenario, I might have to borrow that one! I had thought of doing something involving a barroom brawl or a game of cards gone sour, but I opted for a more traditional "Western" scenario instead. The characters were approached in a bar by a woman who begged them to save her daughter from the gang that had taken over their holestead. After roughing her up a bit for an "advance" they proceeded to run in, guns and eviscerator blazing, which ended up with the leader of the gang dead, the eviscerator-wielding "intellectual-mobster" losing a foot, and the other player having both his legs broken. They were outnumbered, and somehow managed to make two gangers question their way of life while the players crawled away. The remaining ganger was sniped by a yet-unnamed NPC who may or may not be a future plot hook (I just really didn't want them to both die on the first mission, also added the extra enemy in there by accident) so it was a mostly successful mission. The reward was a paid-for medical bill. Hopefully they learned their lesson.

As for the stats thing I don`t really see an issue if player wants to buy a whole mess of quirks to buff up and space marines are pitifully weak in FFG without their unnatural stats and rare gear. 2d10+20 is the FFG standard, it generates stats that work well within the system. If you go lower you risk discouraging players with constant test failures.

Your guys seem to be kind of stuck in an all-out wargame rather than a cyberpunk/western sandbox.

i also want to stress that players are not by default a gang. They are essentially nobodies they can choose to form or join a gang as things progress but who wants to be a juve in sombody else`s gang when they can be an awesome freelance adventurer?

What actually worked well for my players was their characters just bumping into each other in the bar and banding together for survival and the slim hope of monetary advantage.

My guys never fired a shot in four hours of play, they dearly wanted to but the occaision to do so never arose as they were walking about in a town. They did however get to use navigate, security, charm, deceive, tech-use, common lore (necromunda) and commerce skills more than their WS and BS for once.

I wanted them to remember in ON that you don`t have the clout of a big Imperial organisation (or anyone at all for that matter) backing you up, when you start killing you are committing a good old fashioned murder. Watchmen gangs, bounty hunters, angry enforcers and angrier friends and family of killed foes are very real dangers.

That said, your scenario sounds pretty cool too. I might use it later if the guys get a bit of a reputation.

1. This only produces a range of 23-35 (as opposed to 22-40) by FFG's own reckoning 26-35 is the average for humanity so I think the higher range is justified.

i also want to stress that players are not by default a gang. They are essentially nobodies they can choose to form or join a gang as things progress but who wants to be a juve in sombody else`s gang when they can be an awesome freelance adventurer?

Don't these 2 statements strike anyone but me as contradictive?