Thought this belonged in it's own thread rather than continuing to highjack someone else's

New Link Here (13/6/14)

I will be updating this file regularly as I work on it (hopefully this link will continue to supply the most current version.)

Notable points so far:

All players will be human (abhuman-like options are included in the form of the "big guy" and "little guy" background packages)

Characters will have to spend starting credits to supplement their (intentionally sparse) starting gear.

Item availibilities are being tweaked, this isn`t the Guard, triplex phall is on the other side of the galaxy and you`ll have to make do with local gear.

Credits are back! The logisics system will be used to determine if a character can obtain rare or unavailable items from the merchant`s guild (or black market) but cost will be the deciding factor in item acquisition.

Being a Psyker is a mutation not a job, there will be no specialised psyker archetype.

Characters are not (yet) affiliated to any faction but GMs are free to improvise or offer PCs oppurtunities to join up with factions.

New Notables:

There is no Sergeant type, it's just not happening, this isn't the guard and you don't get to pull rank.

There will (at least initially) be no Comrades.

Added starting stat bonuses and abilites to PC archetypes.

Updates will be posted... well when I remember to. The file on dropbox should (maybe) update about three minutes after I close my master copy of the file.

Comments, critique and collaborative inputs all are welcome. My one claveat is that I'm writing this up for me and my friends, we aren't making any money off it so don't IP lawyer me to death.

There is no Sergeant type, it's just not happening, this isn't the guard and you don't get to pull rank.

I sense a negative experience in your role-playing past.

If not a "leader" there ought to be at least a social/face-man archetype.

There is no Sergeant type, it's just not happening, this isn't the guard and you don't get to pull rank.

I sense a negative experience in your role-playing past.

If not a "leader" there ought to be at least a social/face-man archetype.

That's what I saw was missing as well, like some sort of artful dodger or fast talker sort of character maybe? The archetype doesn't need rank, just someone who has the fellowship and social aptitudes makes sense. Not everyone needs to be a combat junkie!

There is no Sergeant type, it's just not happening, this isn't the guard and you don't get to pull rank.

I sense a negative experience in your role-playing past.

If not a "leader" there ought to be at least a social/face-man archetype.

That's what I saw was missing as well, like some sort of artful dodger or fast talker sort of character maybe? The archetype doesn't need rank, just someone who has the fellowship and social aptitudes makes sense. Not everyone needs to be a combat junkie!

You guys didn`t get to the bottom of page six I assume

Your social butterfly would be the trader, is he has the called for fellowship and social aptitudes and has been that way since the first draft for exactly the reason that people like playing facemen.

I`m just not a fan of the faceman class being given leadership by a magical cloud of rules crunch. It damages immersion for me in non-military games at least. People play roleplaying games to live in other worlds, not to be bossed about by their friends and it`s often the same player (napoleon complex?) in a group that opts for the leader-type in every game system. Overall I think it`s better for leadership roles to evolve naturally as the group faces the challenges of the game.

It`s right here the last six lines of page six.

aptitudes:

Fellowship

Willpower

Intelligence

Social

Leadership

So erm... yeah I had already dealt with this problem.

The trader has the social abilities to command respect but he`s also the squishiest member of the group. I picture the trader as the scrawny conman, inveterate gambler, artful dodger or pampered debutante thrust into the underhive with only their head for numbers and a dazzling smile.

OK, I passed right over it because of the name. "Trader" just doesn't invoke, for me, those qualities you are envisioning. I'd probably call it something else... Face being the simplest option.

OK, I passed right over it because of the name. "Trader" just doesn't invoke, for me, those qualities you are envisioning. I'd probably call it something else... Face being the simplest option.

You skim reading and missing something is no fault of mine. Odd that three seperate people have done it now.

I really don't see how you could not think that a trader would be socially adept. Also it fits the setting.

OK, I passed right over it because of the name. "Trader" just doesn't invoke, for me, those qualities you are envisioning. I'd probably call it something else... Face being the simplest option.

You skim reading and missing something is no fault of mine. Odd that three seperate people have done it now.

I really don't see how you could not think that a trader would be socially adept. Also it fits the setting.

If you don't want feedback, don't ask for it.

I welcome feedback, critique and constructive input.

You ignored the whole section on your first impression of a single word, that cannot reasonably be my fault.

If you have any suggestions I'm happy to hear them but I would ask that you pay me the simple courtesy of reading what is written before commenting on it's flaws (of which I'm sure there are many.)

I would also diversify the roles. In my experience, the best and simplest way to establish the role selection is to have 2 roles for each encounter type (Combat, Exploration, Investigation, Social) plus a few roles for the bonus 'Support' category (non-encounter specific roles like medic, engineer, pilot, sorcerer and so on). It is important that roles in the same category should supplement each other by representing a different approach to the same problem instead of being interchangeable.

For example, the two Exploration roles would be the 'Pointer' and the 'Scout': the former is focused on navigation and survival (large-scale exploration) while the later specializes on mobility and detection (small-scale exploration). The Pointer takes the party wherever they want to go while the Scout explores the target area once they are there. It's not like the party will be seriously handicapped by the lack of one or the other, but the encounter will be a lot easier when they have both and they are working together.

Similarly, Combat would have the 'Assassin' (DPS) and the 'Warrior' (tank), Investigation would have the 'Agent' (inquiry+analysis) and the 'Infiltrator' (stealth+subterfuge), and Social would have the 'Fixer' (one-on-one social specialist) and the 'Voice' (one-on-many social specialist).

I fully admit that a stealthy melee type is missing from the current list of starting achetypes. That said, it's not impossible to build one.

I would point out that the starting archetypes are just "person types" they aren't trained professions as much as tendencies and affinities that will subsequently develop.

The "fixer" and "voice" are really just different builds of trader. As they both require the same aptitudes.

Currently we have?

Melee tank (Brawler)

Ranged DPS? (Gunslinger)

Combat all rounder (Hunter)

Thief/Engineer/Driver (Tech-Prospector)

Social all rounder (Trader)

I think Trader and Tech-Prospector could be broken into two different archetypes, as a thief/smooth talker isn't really a class, and it could be. I mean if you think about it, this is the Underhive we are talking about! A sneaky guy with security/stealth/pickpocketing should be a very common character.

Also, there is the whole scout thing that was mentioned, and I think that's a good point. The Underhive has large portions that are unexplored or forgotten about; these regions are crawling with explorers and treasure hunters. Both of those could be classes in their own right, or at the very least rolled into one.

The Tech Prospector is a pretty vast generalization, if you think about it. There's no way one guy would be able to be an engineer, doctor, inventor, armorer, driver, archaeologist, and explorer. While he may specialize in a couple of those roles, I think a few different archetypes could be built around those concepts. An Underhive tech-scavenger/scout, engineer/inventor, doctor, fabricator/armorer could all stand alone as classes.

I see your point with diversification of skilltypes (especially with the Tech prospector) but how to build them without duplicating aptitudes is an issue. The problem kind of falls with the aptitude system a character with intelligence, tech and knowledge can be anything from an appliance mechanic to to a surgeon, a tinkerer or an archmagos.

As for explorers that is the whole premise of an RPG on necromunda all PCs are those treasure hunting explorers so making them an additional starting type is kind of off target. Maybe I should try including exploration abilities to all types?

Maybe I should scrap the special abilities as they seem to tie types to a particular approach. all I wanted was to make starting types that represented a variety with affinities to all the primary characterisics covered. Maybe I should overhaul it completely to be more customisable.

Something like picking primary, secondary and teriary characteristic aptitudes.

You gain +5 in your primary characteristic and it`s related aptitude, secondary gains it`s related aptitude and tertiary you just get what you picked.

It`s basically the recipe I`ve been using to cook these up anyway but put it in the hands of the player.

e.g.

jim wants to make azio orditorie a dazzling master assassin with a flair with the ladies.

jim picks

Weapon skill -» +5 WS and Offence

Agility -» Finesse

Fellowship

azio editore - lady killin` assassin

apititudes:

Weapon skill

Agility

Fellowship

Offence

Finesse

Skills to be bought with some free starting EXP (400 seems about right to help out those hopeless fightin` types.)

e.g. Azio buys Charm and Parry (he`s saving up for Stealth and Deceive after he`s had some practice.)

Then I give the ones I`ve already made as examples (after checking they actually fit into this method I'm looking at you FFG and GW.)

I`ll scrap starting gear entirely, if you want gear you can buy it. That`ll get rid of the starting gear imbalance issues which had been weighing on my mind (although nobody else had brought it up.)

That way if you want it you can make it and I won`t have to squat out lacklustre or gamebreaking expansions every few weeks on popular demand (I`m looking at you games industry.)

File should be updated tonight to mirror this design revelation.

New version posted here & top of thread turns out that whole auto updating thing wasn't working quite right and was generally a real big pain in the tuchus.

Notable changes:

Overhauled character build process (more to come on this regarding starting skills and talents)

Almost completed the armoury.

Bolters are now unreliable in line with necromunda fluff.

Good armour is rare and expensive! (10 creds per point, per location.)

I like the sound of the changes! I think allowing players to pick their aptitudes is a good way to do it, gives more customization to the one who will end up playing the character! After all, not every salesperson has an aptitude for social situations, and not every technician is particularly intelligent.

As for the deal about the scouting and the tech-prospector, I understand your point. I was just trying to offer solutions for the problem you stated: how general that position was. Your new system fixes that!

Have you implemented the economy yet? How Thrones or Guilder Credits work, how to earn them, where to spend, etc.?

Basically I`mthinking of a old-style "shop" system you go to a trader and see what he`s got.

You can also order (read use logistics system) to try to obtain uncommon or unavailable items on commission from the Guild.

Rarity is less a matter of supply as it is a measure of the guild`s unwillingness to give you powerful items thtcould disrupt the status quo that they profit from.

As for currency it Credits and their value is explained in the document. How players will amass credits is a matter of how they choose to play the game but I`m thinking a freeform job/quest system.

I will leave it to GMs to decide what they want to be available at any given trader but obviously items of rare availability and higher should be pretty thin on the ground.

I was just reading over the Community Edition of the Necromunda rulebook (available at the Yaktribe Gaming site) and I think much of how the original Necromunda game worked can be ported over, including the trade system.

You find a place with a trader (either a store, wandering trader, workshop, Guilder contacts, etc.) and then you roll to see how many and what kinds of rare items that person carries. Then, you buy it. Most items are common and are found everywhere, but the rare stuff depends on the encounter. The price, too, is semi random in that it has a base price, modified by a dice roll.

Maybe a blend of that semi-random item acquisition, and the logistics system could be combined? Like there is the random table, and you can try and use your Reputation (i.e. Logistics) to acquire certain items or craftmanship. I like that many items are a given, no matter where you are, as that stops the whole silliness of not being able to acquire a laspistol in an area where they are quite common.

The more I think about this game mashup, the more excited I become. Many of the territories and scenarios of Necromunda would port over well as quests or missions in this game, either given or arising out of incident during play. I think it would be really cool if players could be treasure hunting one session, then the next be fighting over a valuable chem pit with a tribe of Ratskins.

I`m glad you like it, at the moment I`m trying to make the system quite FFG-esque but incorporating more necromunda mght be a direction to go (as my group have never actually used the logistics system to date it wouldn`t be a great loss.)

The main problem comes with inventing stats for necromunda items that don`t exist in OW, I don`t want to step on toes or fundamentally skew balance with ubergear. So for the moment it`s just porting.

I`m still not too sure if I want to go into territory of "what to do" beyond a few sugestions or adventure seeds. I want players and GMs to be able to enjoy sandbox RP in the underhive without feeling railroaded.

Eventually I`ll probaly populate the book with some example NPC`s for quickreference, a few pregen locations and a few scattered archeotech ideas (value and such) as GM tools but I don`t want to stifle the imagination of players.

My basic idea was to introduce the unscriptable chaos of the serenity RPG to an underhive bar on necromunda instead of a broken down ship difting in deep space.

I think the Logistics system is great for the situation it's designed for - soldiers interacting with bureaucracy - but not necessarily for the situations present in Necromunda. It would make a great system for trying to acquire specific items or weapons, but as a general system for trade, I think the Necromunda system works best.

I will have to check again for myself, but I didn't see too many items that aren't in both games. What things are in danger of being too good?

As for the seeds, that's kind of the thing I was going for. If you look at the territories, and the scenarios, I can imagine a ton of things for players to do and GMs to throw at them, all without it being a hard and fast scenario. If you think about it, that's how Necromunda is played too. You have a scenario, and although the objectives may be set, the way you accomplish them and the location/terrain won't be the same every time.

For example, say the players arrive in Slag Landing. As there isn't much to do in town, they go to the gambling den. After playing a few games and winning, they have attracted the ire of the local gamblers, who don't take kindly to strangers waltzing in and beating them in home turf. A fight ensues, that quickly escalates beyond that of the space-poker table.

Perhaps the players prevent the fight through some quick words and a smile, only to be mugged outside by a gang of tough looking scummers. This back alley brawl is a quick and dirty affair, with the ruffians making off with the hard-earned credits. Maybe the players chase after them, tracking them down to their hideout in an abandoned holestead. Of course, they could just shake their heads and leave town, instead.

Now those are just two examples, but the conflicts and choices in them reflect different territories, scenarios, and locations that are present in the Necromunda game. I haven't played the Serenity RPG (though I would love to, if only my friends knew of the show!) so I can't really comment there, but my feeling for this game is it should be a measure of how well the characters survive the Underhive, eking out a living through odd jobs and the occasional fungus cavern discovery.

Almost the entire non-weapon item list are exampes of non-ruled items, but off the top of my head.

There are blunderbusses, scrap cannons, harpoon guns, Ratskin warclubs, lobo-chips, implant shears, tox bombs, plasma grenades and two-handed power axes.

Then there's your non-weapons: Icrotic slime, Isotropic fuel rods, auto repairers, and pretty much all of the outlander and outlaw trading post stuff.

I think we have different versions of the Necromunda rulebook, as mine lists none of those weapons...

As for the lobo-chips and implant shears, just make them Rare or Very Rare.

The grenades? Very Rare.

Slime? Rare. Fuel Rods? Very Rare. Auto Repairers? Rare.

Basically anything that isn't already common can be rare or Very Rare, in my opinion.

Very different indeed. I'm reading the original (or "best" if you believe the oldies) you're reading the nitpicked community version that cleaned up all the beardy loopholes and fun grey areas (and has axes despite there almost certainly being no trees on Necromunda.)

Availability of Necromundan items isn't the problem I've already changed almost every item's availability, actual stats and rules for use are the issue. Justifying the existence of a new item without breaking the system is a delicate thing.

It's a shame, then, as I haven't been able to find the original edition hardly anywhere online.

Would you like help statting up the weapons? Or adapting the items to OW? I'm on summer break, so I've got time!

Any input you or anyone else can offer would be appreciated.

By inclination I`m more of a fluff monkey at heart, I want ON to fit the gritty wild west in space flavour of the Necromunda novels and comics but the actual hard work of rules quickly loses it`s shine for me.

I tend to run out of steam on these projects. Yes, this isn`t the first time I`ve done this kind of thing. (wrote two systems from scratch and settings and add-ons beyond counting all just for me aand my friends.) It all tends to go pear shaped when I get bogged down in the fiddly details.

Evidence of this would be that I did all of the first version of this in a single night, but then the last five have taken over two weeks.

I understand how much work it is, which is pretty much why I never started it on my own in the first place

Do you need help statting up the stuff in the previous comment, or other stuff? If you'd like, you can just PM the items you need help with and I can take a crack at it.

However, I think the items and their stats are not as important to the game as the fluff and mechanics are, so maybe that should be your focus instead? Like how will the trading system work, what does staking a claim do for the players, or starting a settlement?

Taking the game to a point where I can get the lads and lasses of my RP group testing it is very much my priority.

I may in fact be building initial trial characters as early as tomorrow with them.

The trading system is my primary concern at the moment.

Actually to hell with the logistics system.

I'm thinking of a "merchant rating" system (this is a behind the scenes mechanic handled by the GM) where any NPC Trader has an assigned value (0 to +5). This value is the modifer which determines their stock quickly and without the endless rigmarole of buggering about with rarity caps or specific lists.

It works by the merchant value to the d10 roll shown below.

Ubiquitous auto/1+

Abundant 2+

Plentiful 3+

Common 4+

Average 5+

Scarce 6+

Rare 7+

Very Rare 8+

Extremely Rare 9+

Near Unique 10+

Unique 11+

Weapon quality adjust the item up or down by one level of availability per level of quality

e.g.

Shenk "Shifty" Simmons has a merchant rating of 1 (he's off the main trade routes and has few friends in the guild)

Jeff the player is looking for a Boltgun to replace his old shotgun.

A boltgun is rare (7+) but Shifty has a merchant rating of 1 reducing the required roll to a 6+

So the GM rolls a d10 to see if Shifty can lay his hands on one (needing a 6+.)

The GM rolls a 5, he decides to offer Jeff a poor quality bolter (with an availabilty of 5+.)

Shifty offers Jeff a rusty, beaten up looking boltgun... Jeff decides to make do with his trusty shotgun for now.