Hi!

Coming over from the Edge of the Empire forums, I want to know if this system is a viable alternative to D&D.

I love non-binary, narrative dice. I think it is great in SW, and as my group will eventually want to move back to fantasy for a bit, I am wondering if we can get the same feel and ambiance of D&D with this system.

I am a long time gamer, and have enjoyed AD&D, 2E, 3E and 4E over the years. We had some of our best campaigns with 2E and 3E, so I am looking to get back to that dungeon-delving, undermountain, saving the princess and stopping the evil czar, all while getting the XPs and treasure, type feel and context. Without the OPing and min/maxing. I like balance.

A few people have mentioned that WHFRP can be quite dark, so I have concerns as to whether the initial big box investment is going to be worth my ducets or not.

Thanks in advance for taking the time to read and hopefully answer with your own opinions...

WFRP 3rd uses a non-binary narrative dice system as well. Most view SW as "simplifying" its approach, I find a bit too much in fact for my taste.

In melee, you attack and perhaps hit for damage, reduced by a foe's innate toughness and possibly armour, but perhaps you also deal a critical wound (random card which describes effects, all the detail of an elaborate chart but no rolling or writing, just take card, which also tells you severity for recovery), perhaps you also trip and fall, fatigue yourself, damage your weapon all at once, perhaps your weapon is extra piercingly sharp and ignored some of their armour, etc.

The system also handles social and non-combat encounters. It's good for "ghost stories" threatening madness instead of death etc. but you don't have to go down that road if you don't want to.

It's a grim dark doomed world overall but along the way there can be humour, romance, heroism - as well as madness, disease, corruption, mutation etc. In the Gathering Storm introductory box adventure one menace is an inbred tragic family and another is a farmer's daughter who may set her eyes on a PC.

How dark it will be in practice depends quite a bit on how a GM runs it.

There is widespread concern FFG is withdrawing support as we are now almost exactly one year since the last print on demand publication. PDF's available online for boxed sets etc. do not have cards included and don't offer the full experience. So part of issue is if you decide you like it can you get your hands on all of it you would like?

With that concern stated, I love the system and my group came over from D&D to it, have played over 130 sessions of it so far and still want to keep with the system etc. One player recently started running his own group in the system.

My group have been playing for a long time (150-isch sessions total) and all still agree that it's among the best RPG-systems we have ever played. I've played with about 10 different people, and all have enjoyed it a lot.

I'd definitly recommend the game wholeheartedly.

That said, you do not "level up" in the same way as in D&D, you improve gradually which I like personally but it's quite far from D&D. But saving Princesses, delving into dungeons is very much a possibility. Combats are more abstract than in D&D as you do not play in an area with 5-foot-squares, but use abstract range measurements.

We left D&D4 for this game and never looked back.

Now that it is out of print, it is easy to pick up cheap.

My preference for this game extends to the utility of the SKILL system because it shrinks down the massive obsolete lists of other systems and has specializations in those skill categories instead. The dice fit perfectly.

The social system (from LURE OF POWER) is my other favorite part of the game. It works similarly to D&D4's "multiple success before x-failures" system, and there are a LOT of social special actions in this game..which was something that I felt was just too lacking in Pathfinder and D&D (all editions).

Here's what I don't like about the system: you need a good character sheet. Write down EVERYTHING on your character sheet except for your Special Actions. Use the cards for that. Otherwise, it was originally created to be very component based..which is cool, and tactile, but eventually it's nice to not have all kinds of stuff scattered about. I house ruled out a couple of the trivial gamist mechanics that I didn't like, and this game supports house ruling very well (you can see in my house rulebook in sig).

jh

k7 is correct in the "level up." Characters do not become "tougher" they become more diverse in their skill sets. This is also nice b/c then a dragon is always A BIG kLCKING DRAGON!!!

You can try out the dice here btw: https://googledrive.com/host/0B27SCDR38xFuNE96TGV4S1Jjdlk/rollers/wfrp3e/#

Here are the promo articles, which are worth browsing: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?etyn=1&epn=11&ecan=62&earmn=&earyn=&esen=

As Valvorik says though, FFG has withdrawn support (technically it's been about 2 years since they've done anything..as they simply drug out/delayed the final releases). As long as not having endless product fleecing to purchase doesn't bother you, you'll be just fine

My personal opinion, it's the MECHANICS of any rules system that really matter. This incarnation of WFRP lends itself to a far more organic, storytelling approach than the older percentile "we ripped this of from Rolemaster / MERP's " system used by 1st ed. Many of the cards and such do have problems but the actual core mechanics of the system are perfectly fine. Where the system tends to "fall down" however are generally in ways on how that system is *interpreted* or described on some of the cards, and in the fact that the scaling is seriously out of whack to the point of almost non-existence. It's a great core mechanic with the dice, don't get me wrong, the implementation of those mechanics can leave a bit to be desired however.

Thank you all very much for your opinions. I really do appreciate it.

I didn't realize that the line had ended. That does change things, as I am not a big POD guy, anyway, but it would be nice to see some new stuff come down the tubes. However, my collection of past D&D stuff is a library of resources, so if I can figure out a way to convert, then...

Anyways, you have all given me a lot to ponder, so I will do that.

Anyone else who has a viewpoint, please chime in. I will continue to follow...

PS. If you haven't yet, try the Star Wars RPG. Same designer, evolution of the system, etc...

The SW universe lives on in my heart as the D6 West End Games system. I am yet to come across a better system for running the cinematic feel of SW. There is much to be said for target number based rules systems, and most of it, pretty good as long as it rewards both the skilled, and the lucky as well.

It's a role playing game after all, be the hero sometimes, rather than the number cruncher

I revisited a chunk of the WEG material lately to mine adventure seeds for my Edge campaign. While I still hold that old system dear I found my glasses were pretty rose coloured there. It was fantastic for it's time, but I'm glad I've moved on. The FFG Star Wars system is fast, cinematic fun with minimal fuss.

As far as OP, I can't recommend WFRP 3e enough. Might be challenging to get your hands on all the bits but if you can there are years of entertainment value there. It's one of the most fantastic systems to ever hit my table, hands down. I cannot recommend the Core box alone, though. IMO it really takes the 4 ruinous boxes to make the system shine. Black Fire Pass is wonderful if you have Dwarf interest, and Hero's Call really rounds out top end play. It's sort of an all-or-nothing investment but worth it if you enjoy the narrative dice system and component-based tools FFG is known for. I purchased the entire line and have zero regrets.

I didn't realize that the line had ended. That does change things, as I am not a big POD guy, anyway, but it would be nice to see some new stuff come down the tubes. However, my collection of past D&D stuff is a library of resources, so if I can figure out a way to convert, then...

I have actually found conversion to WFRP3ed relatively easy. Adventures and other resources are quite easy to convert on the fly or with little preparation.

Side bar for those who don't know: Jay Little (whom as I understand it, designed WFRP3rd) is the the lead designer on the new SW line from FFG. As near as I can tell, it is an evolution of the WH3 system, and requires NO components beyond the custom dice. Thus, my main motivation for coming here.

So, bottom line is I will like this IP, because it is super cool and in line with my current love for narrative dice and abstract mechanics. That's great, I was always about the story, and rarely a simulationist number cruncher.

Bad news is, FFG seems to have ended their current cycle for this IP. Lots of books out there, but no more new stuff. That's OK, I don't have much dosh, anyway.

Also on the down side, it would seem that to really get the full experience, it has been recommended that I get the 4 "ruinous boxes" at the least, I would also assume the big box set.

Am I on the right track here?

Again, many thanks for your time.

Yes, to get the "full official rules" you really do need all those sets.

Here is the trick though, it's not really the rulebooks such as they are that you need, it's the cards you want.

If it were not in breach of several copyright laws, a small book could cover all these things, and I hope FFG has the sense to collate the cards as they did for the Players guide and create a pure "rules system" pair of books.

Agreed that the boxes with cards are really needed. Core + 4 Ruinous (especially the first 2, wizards and priests, corruption and disease) + Heroes Call (higher levels and more backgrounds/races) + the smaller Adventurer's Box (more careers - have to have Rat Catchers!)

I like the card approach as it really minimizes looking stuff up in play. Whether it's how that spell works, what that disease does, how to resolve the social effects of your "winning smile", a critical wound, what happens if you fall in the river or the effects of entering the mausoleum etc., it's all there in front of you.

Snag a play aid such as those in Glitzman's Gallery (Count Dimon v.6 rules summary for example) and then it really sings along.

I have to check books only when Players shop for gear (price lists etc.) or, I admit, occassionally to check a less often used rule like recovery from insanity (I'm forever forgetting the base check is 2D).

Part of what I like about the system is also that, while there are knick-knacks, herbs and other stuff, accumulating gear and wealth is not the centre of play. Play is the centre of play.

You're on the right track, Poly...

What I consider "Core"

Core Box

Signs of Faith

Winds of Magic

Lure of Power

Omens of War

Additional "Core" Content:

Adventurer's Toolkit - additional careers, component support for a 4th player character.

Black Fire Pass - The Dwarf Box. (sourcebook, Runesmith, Engineer, adventure)

Hero's Call - high end play materials

GM Reference & npc standups

Creature Vault (standups companion to the Creature Guide)

Hardcover Players Guide, GM Guide, and Creature Guide (I find these useful, and I like hardcover rpg books)

GM Toolkit (extra dice, screen, great book of tools and tips)

Campaign/Adventure boxes

The Gathering Storm

The Enemy Within

The Edge of Night

The Witches Song

POD

I've found value in almost all the POD's. Nice top tier materials for wizards and priests.

IMO you can skip the Player Vault.

You've got a good advantage to consider as well. You've already played EotE. Since it is the same system (sans talent socketing, stance, special actions) you already know how to play and can pretty much use any rules question from that ruleset.

As it stands, WFRP3 doesn't have a lot of holes in the system, and the write up in EotE smoothed out the rough edges that WFRP3 started with.I can assure you, having had to learn the FFG dice/skill/talent/action system from the Core Set was frustrating as hell. I'm extremely jealous that EotE got a nice, concise, edited, spellchecked, content-checked, refined hardcover. It was playtested pretty much by the WFRP3 crowd and FFG had the luxury of the feedback of a couple years.

jh