Query,

I am working on a campaign plan whereby Tau renegade forces are raiding Imperium military vessels for their weapons, supplies and gear and I am looking for some clarification:

Can the Tau potentially reverse engineer various pieces of Imperial technology or adapt them onto their own?

Assume for all intent and purpose that they just are wanting to use it and there are humans under their employ which can help with some elements of it. The question is whether theres anything which specifically in the fluff would stop them doing it.

Specifically I'd be looking at things such as Imperial Teleporters. Now a topic here discussed it and the concensus was a "maybe":

http://forums.tauonline.org/tau/67355-tau-teleport.html

Now you may ask why is this needed when battlesuits can just jump, well consider that there are some situations where Tau cannot jump into something, the use in boarding operations for example if they could just take one, rig it up to a suit and hit the "go" button. Wouldn't be the most accurate thing in the world but might give them some shot in the dark.

Other things would be the application of psychic jamming devices, null rods and gellar fields. It is allowed under tabletop that field saves such as Invulnerable saves ward against psychic powers and functionally in deathwatch, Tau Forcefields also work against it. My question is whether they would be able to take Imperial specific jamming devices and although not understand them (due to limited comprehension of the warp) at least be able to bolt it onto a battlesuit and reap the benefits (albeit to a perhaps lesser degree).

Go also one stage further, if a Tau force captured an Imperium ship and managed to acquire a cooperative navigator, would they be able to use that ship or be able to retrofit their own weapons/systems to it? Imagine the bulky durable Imperial battleships with heavy Gravetic Launchers...

What are peoples thoughts in relation to this? I would like to check for fluff precedent for/against this before applying GM handwavium to do it anyway, just trying to anticipate any potential argument/backlash.

Hmmm... Unfortunately I can't quote any precedent cases or even remember of ever having read of one.

However, going from feeling, I don't think Tau would be able to replicate it... I'd guess there's a lot of Space Magic within Warp-Related stuff... Bolters, I guess that'd be rather simple (not economic though).

On the other hand, due to their unclouded minds, the Tau might very well reverse-engineer one of those things in due time, while also gaining some insights into the Warp. I'd also assume they'd need to interrogate some psykers... but a Battlesuit with a Psyker inside would certainly be scary as s**t and a memorable boss-enemy. Especially with a Black Templar

Well, there was a GW article that briefly mentions the Tau Empire apparently having the means of enabling its human colonies to produce Imperial-style armaments:

"Those humans who have joined the Tau empire have been provided with the technology required to prevail on the Tau frontier. They have limited production capabilities, allowing them to construct equipment ranging from simple farming tools to a copy of the standard issue Imperial lasgun ."

So I'd say they would certainly have the means to copy something as simplistic as, say, a bolter. Not that they'd necessarily want to, as I consider the standard Tau small arms far above the Imperial standard small arms. As shown above, however, they seem to enjoy letting client races keep access to "racial equipment" - a neat trick that lets assimilated species feel like they're preserving some racial identity, whereas the Tau themselves maintain technological superiority, making sure that they'll always have the upper hand.

Now, weird things such as teleporters or null equipment ... that might be trickier, but I could see the Tau at least try to wrap their heads around it. As it is my interpretation that all technology in 40k is really just technology (and even some stuff that, by the ignorant Imperials, is perceived not as technology), it should theoretically be possible to replicate it, given enough time and resources to gain an understanding.

However, at least for the psyker-specific equipment, the Tau may need psychically active participants to calibrate and test their knock-offs, so I could imagine a lab with either captured or volunteering human psykers (some of which may not even be from Imperial space and thus are unbound witches).

I'd say there is quite a bit of story potential in some huge secret weapons research facility full of what any Deathwatch Kill-team would surely consider tech-heresy of the worst kind. And dangers may not only come from the facility's Tau guardians, but also psychically active test subjects whose containment fails once the Marines begin to "shut down" security.

The concept of teleporting Tau crisis teams is frankly terrifying. Something which can warp hop behind you and shoot two plasma gun rounds into your back. Hence if there is backing it makes the idea even scarier.

All the more reason for the Kill-team to make haste!

Perhaps they could even be instructed to make it look like an accident, discouraging or at least slowing down further research as the scientists scramble to find out what went wrong?

Do you think I'll get hated or burned alive then for going one step further and rigging a teleporter onto a riptide battlesuit powered by its nova reactor?

So what about ship reverse engineering or retrofitting as this is also something I'm looking at. My knowledge of Battlefleet Gothic is low but aren't Tau ships somewhat worse armoured or smaller than Imperial counterparts but more agile or cheaper to compensate for the shortfall? How does a gravetic launcher (what I gather is their heaviest anti-capital weapon) compare to a lance battery or Nova Cannon etc? I'd like to know if it might be realistic for a Tau force to retrofit Imperial warships with their own gear (enjoying the Imperial's larger hull) or would they simply try to adapt the firing/automated systems as their own are likely going to be superior due to AI and drone controlling.

Now you have done it: I vant to stat Tau voidships for Dessvatch! (Never mind my akzent.)

Alex

Might work on stats for a Manta...silly SI, forcefield etc.

Essentially then Lynata:

That's how I'd interpret it! Kind of similar to how it works on the ground indeed, and I'm sure this is not a coincidence.

But I'm a noob when it comes to BFG, I've only ever read that stuff to slate my thirst for fluff, so someone with more experience would be better suited here.

In regards to Warp travel, I have a feeling the Tau might not even want to use the "Imperial" style of traversing the Warp. Yes, it's five times faster on average , but on the other hand the Tau have consistent travel times, which enables a much better level of planning and force disposition. x5 speed counts for little if your battle group arrives 100 years late to the battle!

On a hunch, I'd say the Imperium of Man would be the one who would trade their engines for Tau drives if they wouldn't be so xenophobic.

But the funny thing is, the ideal is probably "the best of both worlds" - an engine that allows slow but safe passage throughout the galaxy, with an emergency boost that lets you do a full Warp jump for a notable increase in speed, with a risk of various side-effects.

Allow me to give you some context where this is going:

The plan here is that these are renegades against the true ways of the greater good and are not against making a few "against the norm" modifications to weaponry and gear in the name of their cause, hence why they are looting Imperial ships and supplies. I'm toying with Farsight Enclave but that might impose too many restrictions hence perhaps another splinter group entirely. Human auxiliaries are therefore in play. Stolen Imperial technology, gear and other equipment may enter play including prototype weaponry as a group try to essentially jerry-rig this stuff together in an effort to give them a tactical edge.

This splinter group is messing with the Imperials, going on for long enough and this is what calls the Deathwatch into play to handle it. Orders are to handle the situation by "whatever means necessary short of exterminatus", but later on I want to throw a nice difficult decision in as the Tau Empire itself sends a formal representative in head of a sizeable cadre of warriors and ships. They offer a ceasefire to deal with the renegade splinter and in exchange will trade information about a possible major attack planned on a major Imperium world nearby. I havent decided if this is a sufficient bargaining chip though to make a KT side with an Ethereal to tackle a commander. Other options welcome, I want to make it seem like an interesting thought.

I do however have a counter offer planned, the Renegades will put forward a response, offering the KT the chance to take out the Tau Ethereal leading. It'll send the caste and a chunk of the Empire into disarray and the renegades will depart from this region of Imperial space if they agree, however what they wont know is that in doing so they will absorb the Ethereals forces into its own and will become an even greater threat elsewhere to Tau and human alike. So basically they take out one threat but will in turn generate another.

Well, that sounds like a cool plot to me!

By "possible major attack on a major Imperium world" you are referring to non-Tau forces, though, I presume?

Pretty much the only thing that jumps out at me is the other enemy being an Ethereal where I'd expect a Water Caste Envoy , but that's just because I've dug a lot into GW's fluff - I know such things tend to be depicted differently depending on where you look, and I'm not really sure how the DW RPG deals with the Tau (the only book I have from that line are the core rules, and that one doesn't discuss Ethereals) so my confusion here might be entirely unfounded..

By "possible major attack on a major Imperium world" you are referring to non-Tau forces, though, I presume?

Correct, third party. Intelligence gathered. Either they spotted a Tyranid fleet moving inbound, masked from the eyes of the Astronomicon, know of a Chaos Warband nearby with eyes on it, seen a few Ork Roks get lobbed in that rough direction etc.

Something like hitting a major Hive/Forge world and if the bait is taken, throw some more feed out by verifying it with basic intel showing the scale of the attack in question but hiding the target until they comply etc.

I imagine the Tau could copy a great deal of technology that humanity presently uses. I might put some Archeotech beyond them, as they are not as advanced as the DAoT humans were in many fields. Having humans to help with those fields isn't going to help either.

Psyker related technology might be more difficult, as their race is not really capable of producing psykers and has less understanding of the Warp. It might be interesting to see how Tau deal with being thrown through the Warp by a Teleportarium. Humans have their faith to shield them, would the Tau's faith in the Greater Good protect them as well? Also, messing with any Warp related technology tends to result in corruption when problems occur.

Having humans to help with those fields isn't going to help either.

Now I just had to imagine a bunch of Tau scientists interrogating a Tech-Priest, utterly confused by the garbage he's talking, and trying to decide whether he's trying to make fools out of them, or whether their scans have missed something in regards to tiny little spirits inhabiting human technology.

Having humans to help with those fields isn't going to help either.

Now I just had to imagine a bunch of Tau scientists interrogating a Tech-Priest, utterly confused by the garbage he's talking, and trying to decide whether he's trying to make fools out of them, or whether their scans have missed something in regards to tiny little spirits inhabiting human technology.

"Y'know, whatever you are telling us, is not working!"

"Well of course it isn't. For one, the Spiritus Mechanicus of this device is very picky about whom it helps. Furthermore, you gravely insulted him by not using the correct rites, filthy Xenos. Simply out of pity for this poor machine, I'd have to teach you the correct rituals so this venerable comrade wouldn't have to suffer your ignorance, but on the other hand you are simply Xeno-Filth, not able to understand the true Greatness of the Omnissiah. I pray my Collegicus Harresh Magos Biologica would be here, the probability of us finding a new path to knowledge by vivisecting you is quite high according to my cortex-cogitator."

Back On-Topic, the Campaign sounds awesome, full of military and moral dilemmas, certainly suitable to seriously make a Kill-Team thinking

I've been looking to take this reverse engineering thing further. Ignoring the "why", I'll handle that, consider whether it could be plausible for a Tau to look into the argument of genetic alteration or gene splicing. The Inquisition and Imperium have dabbled in this (it's why we have marines). Question would be whether the Tau could do it...

I'm also looking at whether there is the possibility of incorporating other variants of Xeno tech into their equipment. Essentially you're looking at a renegade caste who not only dabbles in non tau technology but will actually try and incorporate it into their own devices. So far theres a few Necron things you can easily nick (like C'tan phase swords that the assassins used to use), Tesseract Labyrinths etc but what about anything else...any Eldar construct perhaps or would ever bit of it be locked out to the non psyker?

Last one in this batch, has it ever been finalised about the comparative strength/weakness/workable quality of iridium and adamantium? I'm toying with whether that could work...toughen up a suit with that!

Tau genesplicing/genetic alteration may be normal, or their genetic differences between the castes could make it very complicated. They are allready pretty heavily specialized.

Eldar tech might be very hard to understand if you can't even detect the psychic parts of its operation. Necron tech should be pretty far beyond them as well. For all thier technological advancement, they haven't had the exposure to that tech that the Mechanicum has. Ork tech...um, yeah.

As the Federation/DAoT humans didn't use Iridium for ship hulls or armor I assume that Adamantium is overall the better choice. For certian high temp uses Iriduim may be better, but not as armor. Remember that during the DAoT humans had tech not even barely comprehensible to 40k humans. They would have used Iridium in armor if it was better. They used Ceremite for a lot of high temp uses, which leads me to believe it is superior to iridium in high temp armor as well. The rarity of Iridium wouldn't have been much of a factor for them, at least for personal equipment. The fact that it isn't used means that their composits/alloys were better.

My understanding of Tau society is that each Sept World is like a separate nation-state or duchy. The organization of the Tau Empire actually lends itself well towards being compared to medieval feudalism. The T'au sept holds vassalage (through the philosophy of the Greater Good) to the other major septs, each one of which might hold vassalage over the lesser septs. Where Aun'va might be considered the monarch of the Tau, each of the septs might be controlled by an Aun'o 'duke' or an Aun'el 'Count.'

The point I'm getting at here is that each of the septs has very little to do with one another. Each one is more-or-less autonomous, and each one emphasizes the Greater Good in different ways. Each one has a different remit for Expansion and different preferences vis-a-vis auxiliaries and tactics.

So this all really just sounds like a new Sept to me. Otherwise, what's motivating them? Is it how the Ethereals are trying to cover up the existence of powers in the Warp? If so, I'm pretty sure they align with Farsight. Are they misguidedly corrupt, and trying to use the powers of the Warp? If so, then it's different- although, if they want to use the powers of the Warp for the good of the Tau people, the same way that Farsight really is working for the Greater Good in his own way (just not the Greater Good of the Ethereals), then why did they forsake the system already in place?

While warp travel over distances is hard, I see no reason that the Tau couldn't reverse engineer a teleportarium... but then they'd need to reverse engineer the wards and fields that are used to successfully teleport infantry. The first few dozen test subjects will never be the same.

One last question since I can't find anything on any forum (even the RT boards), does anyone have a rough number for the approximate capacity of any of the vessels in the Imperial Navy fleet?

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Merchant_Fleet#.U4zvtPldWSo

Or to rephrase the question:

"How much of various materials can various kinds of vessel hold? (roughly)"

RT only works on units of space and each component takes an amount of space so what I'm talking about is say: X tonnes of ore, y thousand gallons of fuel/water, z hundred crates of weapons/items etc.

Basically I'm trying to develop an inventory of nicked stuff from ships passing through and I don't want to over estimate the material capacity nor want to underestimate. I havent found anything concrete so if I can't find anything then I'll start guessing numbers.

You're asking for hard numbers in a game where the fluff is frequently self-contradicting. This is ill advised- and worse yet, there is no easy way of getting an answer. That said, I'll take a truly wild stab at it, may the God-Emperor and all the Ruinous Powers have mercy on my soul.

Mass is a more important metric than volume. Knowing that, we know that the mass of the Universe mass conveyor itself is 60 megatonnes. or 60 billion kilograms (60 teragrams?) if you prefer.

Bearing in mind that Gross Tonnage and Net Tonnage have... not much to do with each other, and that they aren't even particularly useful measures, it may be useful to know the the Emma Maersk , a superfreighter, has a Gross Tonnage roughly three times it's Net Tonnage, which suggests that we can approximate it's cargo capacity at one-third its total volume.

Please bear in mind that this is the grossest estimation, but if you assume that one third of each pure cargo vessel's mass is cargo capacity (as opposed to fuel, structure, engines and whatnot), then you've got a reasonable-enough-to-fool-the-unwary system in place.

Now if you'll excuse me, I need to take a shower. That felt dirty, and a pox on all maritime measures of tonnage.

I am happy with raw guesswork. As long as there's nothing in established fluff anywhere which says "this must contain this much mass of items" then I have free reign to pluck numbers out the air without repurcussion.

RT cargo holds are truely massive things. I think someone did a comparison based on ship size for transports and Space units and came out with cargo holds being able to hold several aircraft carriers. In RT you rarely need to be exact. For transports you could assume that a cargo hold allows the ship to carry half its mass. That is sort of off the top of my head, but it sounds reasonsable. You could do a lot more math, but I think that would work for most games.

So a bit of necromancy here but I finally got time to advance the idea a little.

For the last few days I've been working on a prototype suit spec with some nasty reverse engineered kit on it. Long story short and rules in dev the suit is packed with stolen/adapted kit such as:

- Adamantium/Iridium alloy plating with Imperial hexagrammic wards (Captured/recruited psychic experts)

- Adapted necron style disbursements force field (reflects shots back)

- Prototype weapons reconfigure (Think nanotechnology trying to replicate the obliterator effect of changing weapons).

- High magnification clarity with multi spectrum vision modes: IR, UV, thermal etc (inspired from vespid visuals)

The list of extras is quite nasty which is why it's only a single suit, a final encounter or one avoided but wanted to bounce some more of the concepts about and get new ideas for content which could be added to really make this the first massive experimental suit.

Calgor Grimm, I love everything about this concept!

First, my recommendations about things to add (feel free to add any or none, they're just ideas):

1) A Grenade launcher, with the following grenades:

- Bio toxin grenades, inspired by the genetic adaptive toxins of the tyranids (can use blight grenades)

- Haywire grenades (taken directly from the imperium)

This is so maintaining the environmental integrity of their suits in combat will be important (using up actions that would otherwise be spent killing the big bad, buying him more turns to do his thing), and because the whole point of this thing is technological superiority. It's bad enough if he has uber tech, but if the heroes are also denied their tech, it gets taken to a whole other level

2) Adapted Eldar style holo fields

Because I'm evil, and because especially if you did combine with teleporter tech (keep in mind, such tech could be adapted from ork tech if you don't think they could get it from the imperium, but that might just be my love of teleporter tech talking), it would make for an absolutely chaotic fight, as they are always second guessing his location

3) Techmarine inspired shock fields

To make it so they can't just grapple him and have their way with him.

One minor recommendation for change in your existing list, in terms of fluff, I would posit the weapons reconfigure as less of a nanotechnology and more of a "snap on" style modular component system (think something like transformers in terms of weapon reconfiguration, rather than terminator 2). Either would be totally workable, but not only would changing the amount, configuration, etc of containment units, magnifiers, splitters, etc be a *lot* easier, I personally think it would be more lore-friendly as well. I have issues even with prosanguine and autosanguine, since miniaturization is the one area 40k doesn't really do.