Rogue Trader

Dark Heresy

Black Crusade

Deathwatch

Those are the RPG's I play. Wanting to pick up Only War and Dark Heresy 2nd Edition.....

.....but.....

.....before I do I was wondering about Star Wars: Age of Rebellion. Any Star Wars RPG for that matter.

Are the rules:

Compared to any 40K RPG you deem the best.

(A1) Harder to learn

(A2) Same

(A3) Easier to learn

(B1) More complicated

(B2) Same

(B3) Less complicated

(C1) Less fun and interesting

(C2) Same

(C3) More fun and interesting

Does it encourage:

(D1) Less kill more story

(D2) Balance and Equality of action and story telling

(D3) More kill less story

How easy is it to find miniatures to play the game:

Old habits die hard I suppose .

(E1) Like finding a needle in a hay stack

(E2) Like finding a dog in a kennel

(E3) Are you kidding! Just look at all these......

Feel free to add anything else you think might help sway my decision.

I have very limited experience with the Warhammer 40K ruleset, so I can't speak to many of your questions directly. However, I can answer some of them.

My opinion is that the ruleset is very easy to pick up and learn within a session or two, at least compared to most d20 games that I've played. Combat is much more narratively driven, and the core mechanic (the dice pool) is designed around making the entire game more narrative. That said, how "killy" your game feels is largely going to be a function of your individual group and GM. My experience has been that the Edge of the Empire/Age of Rebellion system encourages roleplaying, but I think the story and combat elements are actually well balanced. Your group and experiences may vary.

Star Wars miniatures are increasingly expensive and difficult to find. Wizards stopped making them when they lost the license, and FFG hasn't made new ones. However, combat in Edge of the Empire is not nearly as tactically driven as a d20 RPG, so that's really not an issue. The game I'm currently playing in is entirely mapless and mini-less.

If you're interested in dabbling in the ruleset, however, and you aren't sure if you want to make a big investment, I'd recommend trying out the Edge of the Empire Beginner Game. It can be found pretty easily for around $20 . It includes maps, tokens, a set of dice, an introductory adventure that's designed to teach you a simplified version of the ruleset, and four pregens. Two additional pregens and a followup adventure can be downloaded here .

Edit: The equivalent box for Age of Rebellion will most likely be coming out in April or so.

D20 would be a new experience. I'm used to D10 with the 40K books.

Sounds easier to learn how to play.

Narrative is always welcome above combat for me. I know it's necessary in Star War s and War hammer 40,000, but I don't like it when people build unltra poweful killing machine characters who just slaughter anyone trying to be a more balanced character.

The rules are generally easier to learn, though proprietary dice sometimes cause some lag time. The rules are certainly less complex. I find them more fun and interesting. They encourage the whole group to be involved in every roll, whether they are rolling or not. Kill vs story is all up to the GM. I've had sessions of all combat and sessions of km combat in both games. Just depends.

I know nothing about miniatures. I play both games without them.

All of the above. Mini-wise, it's obvious that you can go either way. Their beginner set comes with abstract maps and tokens, and my group uses other minis that appear close. The only setting minis currently available are the wizkids/WOTC minis, and while they were everywhere six months ago on Kijiji and Ebay, the rising popularity of this new iteration has them disappearing, OR the prices have begun to inflate dramatically.

Which just get on with what we've got and enjoy the ride. A bit Macgyver, but my battlemat works just fine. Even better now that I ignore the grid...

Mini-wise, there are a few that piecemeal their own figures together from Lego Star Wars stuff... Since it is handled in the abstract, it can be a fun way to handle things.

The rules are easier to learn than the 40K RPGs, and it's much more cross-compatible. The volume of dice is intimidating to begin with, but is quite intuitive...much more so than even the similar WFRP. Very quickly my guys were figuring out ways to use advantage and threat above and beyond the basic success/failure of any given task.

One game I ran, one of the players said something offhand by a remark for a threat result, his Dad said, "don't give him ideas!" To which I responded, actually, give me ideas, that's how the system is supposed to work!

Are the rules:

Compared to any 40K RPG you deem the best.

(A1) Harder to learn

(A2) Same

(A3) Easier to learn

(B1) More complicated

(B2) Same

(B3) Less complicated

(C1) Less fun and interesting

(C2) Same

(C3) More fun and interesting

Does it encourage:

(D1) Less kill more story

(D2) Balance and Equality of action and story telling

(D3) More kill less story

How easy is it to find miniatures to play the game:

Old habits die hard I suppose .

(E1) Like finding a needle in a hay stack

(E2) Like finding a dog in a kennel

(E3) Are you kidding! Just look at all these......

Feel free to add anything else you think might help sway my decision.

The rules are harder to learn and more complicated. The reason I say this is two main points:

1) There are a lot of grey area rules, just look at all the confused people on the Edge of the Empire forum asking detailed questions about basic things. They didn't do a very good job of writing clear and precise rules.

2) The dice - I have several regular gamers drop out because they just couldn't get past the dice. It's very, very different.

That being said, if you get past the complicated dice and has a group that can go with the flow and GMs rulings on game rules the game is great and definitely encourages roleplaying and is a lot of fun.

Miniatures: the game is designed NOT to support miniatures the system is a story system that uses a lot of abstarct measurements and story-telling. That doesn't mean you can't use miniatures, we do mainly because I have $500+ in SW miniatures from previous SW RPG.

They are not hard to find and you can buy singles at several major sites like miniature market or cool stuff inc.

I'd say the dice pool was incredibly easy to pick up. Much easier than keeping track of numbers, armour ratings, hit die, distance and numerous other factors in Pathfinder. Its very easy to explain to newcomers. Most pick it up after a single session.

I've taught around 20 people so far, all of which preferred the narrative, less number crunching style of play.

Its been a huge success where I live.

I haven't had any problems teaching the game, and my group is making baby steps every week (myself included!), on enhancing the experience.

The best thing I can say is that this is hands-down one of the best systems out there for creating a world that is tipped whichever way you like. You will have absolutely no problems writing campaigns that are combat heavy, RP heavy or story heavy. You can dial up or down very easily where these elements are concerned.

Just get that sorted out first. The careers (classes) are so varied in purpose, that if you were to write a combat heavy campaign and someone created a Colonist/Politico, they would be frustrated for a while, as all of their strengths are RP-based. Not to say that they can't become more adept at fighting, but it costs more XP-wise, and defeats the spirit of that class (unless you have a highly ingenious and creative player).

Hmmmm

I've got a good imagination so lack of miniatures won't be that big of a deal. Because I want to post my story in blog/YouTube/facebook form ( haven't decided yet ) I could always just doodle pictures of the events. Failing that, I'll just bite the bullet and pick up some Wizkids and have a skilled painter redo them for me. Though Lego Star Wars might be great fun, I loved Lego as a boy. Good way to show injury and damage.

Miniatures or not, consider me

"Encourages roleplaying" and "uses a lot of abstract measurements and story-telling". I'm all for story-telling and the whole point of a roleplaying game is to roleplay. Also the "less number crunching" comment is another positive since I've always disliked Maths.

So that's another big fat

I've got to say, I grew up with D6 games and found the percentage and D10 a bit grating until I got used to it. Stupid Maths! So I will make having to learn D20 a but I'm sure I'll get used to it, or find it easier, so I'll not judge that part too harshly.

I must say you have convinced me. I'm getting tired of Warhammer 40,000. Games Workshop have sucked the life out of me so that yesterday I found myself being negative about them. Having grown up with Star Wars, and loving all six movies and computer games such as Battlefront 1 and 2 and Star Wars Supremacy, I think this will be a good change for me.

My last and final question regarding the RPG is this:

Are there rules for vehicles and small craft, perhaps up to Millennium Falcon and AT-AT sized?

Just curious. This isn't going to effect my purchase of the book.

Duh! Just read the description of the book and it even has starships! Silly me

Age of Rebellion and Edge of Empire.....

.....what's the difference?

I'm not asking about rules here, more general stuff like characters and vehicles and gear and whatever else you might come up with.

I've got to say, I grew up with D6 games and found the percentage and D10 a bit grating until I got used to it. Stupid Maths! So I will make having to learn D20 a but I'm sure I'll get used to it, or find it easier, so I'll not judge that part too harshly.

Just to make sure I was clear earlier, Edge of the Empire and Age of Rebellion are not d20 systems. I was just comparing the mechanics in Edge of the Empire to d20 systems, because those are the RPGs that I have the most experience with. Sorry if I made that confusing.

Age of Rebellion and Edge of Empire.....

.....what's the difference?

I'm not asking about rules here, more general stuff like characters and vehicles and gear and whatever else you might come up with.

The simplest answer is that the character classes, vehicles, and overall theme are more closely designed around fighting in the Galactic Civil War rather than trying to survive on the fringes of civilization as in Edge of the Empire. There's also a major difference with the Duty mechanic replacing Obligation. (In Edge, every character has an obligation that they're trying to pay down or remove. In Age, your character can gain access to resources and rewards (some story-based) by increasing their Duty score.)

So where Edge of the Empire has Mercenaries, Bounty Hunters, and Smugglers, Age of Rebellion has Soldiers, Senators, and Ace Pilots. There is some crossover. Some specializations, equipment, ships, and species are the same across both lines, not unreasonably so. As far as FFG is concerned, they're completely separate games that are completely compatible.

Edit: Typos.

Just note that people's feelings about starship rules are a mixed bag and AoR didn't change much about them from EotE other than adding in some extra rules (i.e. the Massive Quality) for large enough capital ships.

I say " large enough " since to some extent the difference is also in scale -- Edge of the Empire mainly has freighters/space transports (i.e. the YT-1300 that the Millenium Falcon is based on) and the largest ship in its book is the Nebulon-B frigate, while the Age of Rebellion has Star Destroyers and Rebel cruisers, with the largest ship being an Imperial 'battlecruiser' (larger than both, though not nearly as big as the " Super Star Destroyer " from TESB/ROTJ).

Great!

I'll probably get both. Since I like the idea of being a Rebel battling against the Empire, but the whole idea of Bounty Hunters also appeals.

Thanks for all the info everyone

For what it's worth, the Jedi are going to be relegated to a separate upcoming core rulebook, but you can have Force-sensitive characters in EotE and AoR: each of the two books has a "Force-Sensitive" specialization ("Exile" in EotE and "Emergent" in AoR) and three Force powers, all of which may be bought after character generation . Having either one grants access to its respective talent tree and Force Rating 1, which allows players to buy Force powers (and then upgrades thereof).

There is by design no Lightsaber combat skill by default for players in either core rulebook, although the EotE book specifies that a GM may allow such a custom skill and there is a statblock for a lightsaber... pretty brutal in and of itself but with no " customization hard points " with which to tweak it, meaning that " what you see is what you get ".

* Note : By rules-as-written any Force-sensitive may take any power in either book, with the caveat that Move was reprinted in AoR and and is considered one and the same, so there's only five different Force powers.

Cool

I didn't even think about Jedi. So that's a bonus!

Cool

I didn't even think about Jedi. So that's a bonus!

They don't represent Jedi, nor even Jedi-trained sensitives, nor even the other "Traditions of the Force" (Tyia, Sith, Dathomiri). They represent self-taught types.

Cool

I didn't even think about Jedi. So that's a bonus!

They don't represent Jedi, nor even Jedi-trained sensitives, nor even the other "Traditions of the Force" (Tyia, Sith, Dathomiri). They represent self-taught types.

I know. Still cool.

Besides, I believe there is a third book which will deal with Jedi. But I'd rather have some self-taught types.

Mind you, the potential power of said self-taught types can be pretty high... but yeah, beyond them the current implementations you'll find in EotE and AoR are " the Force, but not Jedi " by design and by lore; such is the rarity of Jedi that even a " failed " Jedi is a Nemesis-level NPC -- the highest NPC 'level' in the game.

Speaking of NPC 'levels', instead of the potential weirdness of d20 Challenge Levels (CL)/Challenge Ratings (CR) or d20 Saga Edition's " non-heroic " class (particularly if combined with PC levels), EotE/AoR NPCs just use a simple three-step hierarchy:

Minion : by far the individual weakest but can form Minion groups, i.e. Imperial Naval Trooper

Rival : an individual NPC (i.e. Imperial Naval Officer) with some limitations compared to PCs but notable capability in their own right, i.e. Imperial Naval Officer

Nemesis : is essentially a " boss " level NPC who has no such limitations and has access to stuff that PCs don't by default such as the Lightsaber skill, i.e. Imperial Moff (who thankfully doesn't have the Lightsaber skill!)

P.S. Re: people's issues with the game's starship rules... there's at least two people on these boards who have explicitly declared a view that the real best starfighter in the game by rules-as-written... is the Y-wing.

Keeps getting better and better.

I plan on using X-Wing when the action gets into starfighter territory. That includes Firespray and YT-1300. But between me and you my favourite craft, not including the two I've just mentioned , are the X-Wing and Y-Wing.

From what you've said, I'm liking the force users more and more as I don't want them to be unbeatable awesome super characters. Though I'd like some appearances from Yoda and Darth Vader from time to time, perhaps others, I want them to be NPC's who help or hinder the characters and not players themselves.

Yoda remains my favourite Jedi. Was never a fan of Luke.

I plan on using X-Wing when the action gets into starfighter territory. That includes Firespray and YT-1300. But between me and you my favourite craft, not including the two I've just mentioned , are the X-Wing and Y-Wing.

From what you've said, I'm liking the force users more and more as I don't want them to be unbeatable awesome super characters. Though I'd like some appearances from Yoda and Darth Vader from time to time, perhaps others, I want them to be NPC's who help or hinder the characters and not players themselves.

Yoda remains my favourite Jedi. Was never a fan of Luke.

Fun thing : The Firespray and the YT-1300 are two of EotE's three choices for the party's starting starship. The third being the Wayfarer -- although the GM may allow any starship(s) totaling up to the value of the Wayfarer (the most expensive of the three).

IIRC the reason why some say that the BTL-S3 Y-wing is the " game mechanics " best starfighter comes down to being the only two-seater (besides a TIE Bomber) and having an astromech socket.

Re: " Force users " -- the player ones in EotE/AoR are definitely not " unbeatable awesome super characters ", not least since the Force specializations immediately grant Force Rating 1, not +1... for the +1 you'd have to buy the Force Rating talent at the bottom row of their Force specialization's talent trees; therefore, an EotE-only or AoR-only game would only allow Force Rating 2, while a combined game would only allow Force Rating 3 (buying both specializations and both talent trees' iteration of Force Rating +1). I'm told that the minimum-possible cost to beeline it to both Force Rating talent iterations (ranks) actually isn't that bad, but it's still XP that could have gone to other stuff of potentially more immediate utility.

As far as NPCs though, there's only three Force-sensitives in EotE and the AoR beta (Emperor's Hand, Forsaken Jedi, Jedi-in-Hiding), but they're all Nemesis ranked.

I'm currently working on the idea of a Padawan-in-hiding NPC.

Keep in mind... a padawan should be 2-3 force rating... after much time, possibly even a 4. And, odds are, they're at least 20 years old by 0 ABY...

Also: a 3 force rating, used effectively, is mighty potent. A 4 is able to casually expect to influence stormtoopers and minor bureaucrats, lift people, find hidden persons, etcetera.

Bit steep.

The Padawan in question is actually the son of a Jedi in hiding who has been being trained by his dad. But he's only a Youngling.

Been hard at work on background to my ideas. Here's where you'll find out about my Padawan-in-hiding:

http://knightsofboanerges.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/star-wars-eu-and-me.html