Question,

I'm looking to create a suitably powerful NPC for a Deathwatch Game but using the Black Crusade character generation system (purely because it's an amasing system).

The figure is a Chaos Champion and needs to be on par as a character with Rank 5 Deathwatch characters. The problem is though, that Deathwatch Experience for a Rank 5 character is 30,000 or greater. Additionally advances are often more expensive and more limited for those in DW over BC which has them fairly cheap. If I gave a chaos marine 25,000 XP to spend and asked them to run through the system in BC we'd have someone able to smack seven bells out of daemon princes in their sleep.

What then, would you say from experience is a suitable amount of experience to aim for which is roughly comparable to the higher numbers in other books?

Keep in mind that the BC advances are only cheap as long as you are aligned or higher.

A suitable starting point for me would be to go with 10.000 xp and then run a few simulated fights against the PCs, if he feels to weak, add 2000xp more. Rinse and repeat.

It's still cheap for neutral characters though. I mean even the final Expert level stat advance in a skill is no more than 1000XP. Put that in Deathwatch and that number, for their preferred skill is usually 1500XP, way more expensive.

From this then it sounds like take roughly 1/3 - 1/2 of the deathwatch xp allocation to make a roughly approximate BC?

Why are you making this so complicated?

You`re a GM, rules are for players.

An NPC is as tough as he needs to be, and as awesome as you want him to be.

Why arse around with point buy? It doesn`t matter if the guy your PCs are fighting has scholastic lore: botany, knows how to fly a thunderhawk or knew Kharn the Betrayer back in the old days. These sort of details are what GM handwavium is for.

Why are you making this so complicated?

You`re a GM, rules are for players.

An NPC is as tough as he needs to be, and as awesome as you want him to be.

Why arse around with point buy? It doesn`t matter if the guy your PCs are fighting has scholastic lore: botany, knows how to fly a thunderhawk or knew Kharn the Betrayer back in the old days. These sort of details are what GM handwavium is for.

True. It was also being used for more of an experiment really to test the "bang per buck" you can get with BC XP.

What I would recommend is to create a character with a similar statline as a Rank 5 Deathwatch character and then add in abilities that are similar to what that Deathwatch guy has. Once you've created a mirror version of said character, "reverse-engineer" him.

See how many points it would then take to build the character you've put together; that will give you your estimate. You will need a margin of exp. leeway of course, which should typically be +/-1000exp.

You can't compare them so easily. As you yourself noticed, costs differ too much in the long run.

What I would recommend is to create a character with a similar statline as a Rank 5 Deathwatch character and then add in abilities that are similar to what that Deathwatch guy has. Once you've created a mirror version of said character, "reverse-engineer" him.

See how many points it would then take to build the character you've put together; that will give you your estimate. You will need a margin of exp. leeway of course, which should typically be +/-1000exp.

That, I hadn't thought of. Might give me a rough set of numbers or some averages. Will look into that.

Thanks

What I would recommend is to create a character with a similar statline as a Rank 5 Deathwatch character and then add in abilities that are similar to what that Deathwatch guy has. Once you've created a mirror version of said character, "reverse-engineer" him.

See how many points it would then take to build the character you've put together; that will give you your estimate. You will need a margin of exp. leeway of course, which should typically be +/-1000exp.

That, I hadn't thought of. Might give me a rough set of numbers or some averages. Will look into that.

Thanks

No prob.

What Bore suggested is a great idea.

I did something similar with an Alpha Legionnaire I made as an infiltrator in Deathwatch. I first made him using the Deathwatch rules as a Shadow Guard (a Raven Guard successor chapter made using the create you own chapter rules in that line) and then separately created my Alpha Legion character (using the basic rules as the tomes weren't available back then) using my experience points to mirror the skills I had for acquired using the Deathwatch system.

I used the DW character sheet for most of the game and then switched over to my BC character sheet when the time came for the big reveal. I had obviously worked the details out with the GM before hand and it turned out to be a big success.

Hmm.. Pretty similar backstory as my Alpha Legionnaire. Made mine using the Deathwatch rules then converted him with the rules in BC for conversions. Still paid separately for all characteristic advances though since that is not mentioned at all.