Hi all,

I'm in the process of putting together some missions for my first DW campaign, which will also be my first experience GMing a tabletop rpg. I plan on running the extraction mission first, or final sanction, though I am leaning towards extraction due to the more detailed maps I've been finding.

In terms of player xp/rank, are there certain enemies that would be considered too difficult to throw at my players? It seems like the 'nids that extraction calls for them to be encountering are manageable and not very difficult to deal with for rank 1 marines, though I will be playing as a rank 4 squad leader just to kind of help them through their first mission.

I'm considering either genestealers for their next mission if they succeed in retrieving the magos in extraction and having the information he was carrying contain intel on a recently appeared space-hulk infested with genestealers. Though I am considering throwing a curve ball and having them encounter something else that managed to completely slaughter the gene-stealers. It'd make it a bit more challenging especially considering that one of their squad members is a Tyrannic War Vet.

If I do wind up doing that what would serve as a sufficiently challenging foe that is also believably able to clear out a genestealer infestation? Maybe Necrons or would they be a bit too tough for novices? I'm also considering Rak'Gol as well.

Hi all,

I'm in the process of putting together some missions for my first DW campaign, which will also be my first experience GMing a tabletop rpg. I plan on running the extraction mission first, or final sanction, though I am leaning towards extraction due to the more detailed maps I've been finding.

In terms of player xp/rank, are there certain enemies that would be considered too difficult to throw at my players? It seems like the 'nids that extraction calls for them to be encountering are manageable and not very difficult to deal with for rank 1 marines, though I will be playing as a rank 4 squad leader just to kind of help them through their first mission.

I'm considering either genestealers for their next mission if they succeed in retrieving the magos in extraction and having the information he was carrying contain intel on a recently appeared space-hulk infested with genestealers. Though I am considering throwing a curve ball and having them encounter something else that managed to completely slaughter the gene-stealers. It'd make it a bit more challenging especially considering that one of their squad members is a Tyrannic War Vet.

If I do wind up doing that what would serve as a sufficiently challenging foe that is also believably able to clear out a genestealer infestation? Maybe Necrons or would they be a bit too tough for novices? I'm also considering Rak'Gol as well.

In DW my personal attitude is to challenge the players. I like throwing overwhelming odds at them and then helping them find a way to persevere. As a newbie GM, my advice would be to go for enemies that might be a bit hard for your players but give them time to prepare or other favorable circumstances. It's better than too easy enemies being walked over by your players. (The Deathwatch has a reputation for facing impossible odds and prevailing.) Anyway being a new GM, my advice is to consider in advance for each fight how you can adjust the balance of combat during play (reenforcements arriving, etc.). Your players will probably understand your need to develop a feel for the proper challenge level.

As for genestealers, they are super-deadly, one of the foremost melee forces of the 40K universe. If they get into melee, I believe none of your players will live to the see a 3rd round of melee (or at least have burnt fate). They puncture terminator armour and thus make short woodwork of power armour. Whatever adversary defeated them in your game, he probably didnt do it in close combat.

Out in the open and add long range, they are less scary though.

Alex

If you are ever concerned about difficulty, always try the Serious Sam method of making games harder, more enemies, more damage!

Generally though you could consider that in early days most Elite opponents could be strong enough to serve as Master level opponents on their own/small groups. Master level then able to make an appearance later on.

I recently took up GM-ing too, so here are my quite fresh experiences:

a) I kept combat in Extraction on the low - players don't know half of their abilities anyway, so I used narrative heavily to establish the atmosphere (and scare them with whatever, even lone 'gaunts from time to time).

b) The Shrikes are more than a match for the players this early, but it depends on the group size too. I started with two players and almost managed to kill them 10 minutes into the module with two shrikes.

c) If you want to use Genestealers, use the stats from Final Sanction/Oblivion's Edge, since they're simplified and slightly scaled-down. Try, for example, combining the above suggestions, and let only one genestealer loose first, and if it was too easy, have a small group showing up next. Stay away from the Master level, the players first need to have an understanding of all the abilities they possess. As an alternative, you can use Hordes of Convicts, especially in location 7 (primary refinery unit) - just use the genestealer-infected renegades from Final Sanction.

And check the skills and traits of both the baddies and the players thoroughly, especially if the players are new too - spare the headache for yourself.

Thanks for the advice!

I'm hoping that the presence of a Tyrannic War Vet. in the squad will help them along a bit more easily in their first (and maybe second) missions, I'm thinking of having them discover the genestealers slaughtered on the space hulk, and then getting rushed by Khorne Berserkers or maybe Necron Warriors, I'd definitely like to catch them off-guard in the next mission!

Necrons hurt. Those reanimation protocols and those Gauss Weapons really give a player a hard time. A small group of them can keep players going for a while especially if they have other things to be preoccupied with instead of the relentless mechanical advance.

Remember that combat is swift and deadly in Deathwatch. There are few protracted battles. Most battles are kill or be-killed. Initiative matters. Keep that in mind when preparing for session. And make sure your players know.

Alex

...discover the genestealers ... space hulk ... Khorne Berserkers ... Necron Warriors...

You're not planning to go easy on them, do you? Although it depends on the players' mentality. If they just want to try the game out, and are not yet fans of WH40K, you might want to give them a chance to discover what the characters are capable of, and not just in combat. Final Sanction is well-written in this regard, giving all kinds of enemies and always offering a meaningful choice. Oblivion's Edge is more railroad-y.

If they like epic rip and tear, go with Berserkers, by all means, just not too many of them. Necrons are, on the other hand, nasty .

...discover the genestealers ... space hulk ... Khorne Berserkers ... Necron Warriors...

You're not planning to go easy on them, do you? Although it depends on the players' mentality. If they just want to try the game out, and are not yet fans of WH40K, you might want to give them a chance to discover what the characters are capable of, and not just in combat. Final Sanction is well-written in this regard, giving all kinds of enemies and always offering a meaningful choice. Oblivion's Edge is more railroad-y.

If they like epic rip and tear, go with Berserkers, by all means, just not too many of them. Necrons are, on the other hand, nasty .

Yeah I'm going to hold off on the 'crons, I definitely think that encountering CSMs will be a good surprise, since they're not exactly who the deathwatch was meant to fight against.

I have another question, would it be wise/unwise to face my players against xenos that possess a mark of chaos? I'm curious about employing this with certain enemies that it could fit with, namely orks for the most part, but it'd probably be the mark of Khorne or maybe Nurgle. Tzeentch and Slaanesh don't seem to fit well with them for obvious reasons!

Fluff arguments in play, you wouldn't get Orks with Chaos marks, Orks are just way too primitive and pathetic for a Chaos god to even consider bestowing anything like a mark upon them. I don't think it would happen often at all. However as the GM you can override this, what you say goes of course. If you want to make an Ork with Chaos marks then you are free to. Maybe somehow this particular Ork has garnered favour from the Lord of Skulls.

The marks are not really going to make that much of a difference really, especially not on generic Orks. A Warboss maybe but even so it wont cause them any real problems. A suitably armed and tactical Deathwatch team can usually handle a few marked foes without any major problems, and to be fair if they do have any this is why Astartes have fate points!

I do recall reading something about an Ork tribe that found a Chaos altar dedicated to Nurgle and mistook it for one of Gork's (or Mork's?) ...

Supposedly, this was the result:

Mind you, it's been a looong time since I have read about such things in the studio material. But hey, given that the fluff is malleable anyways, and this RPG itself has deviated from the original background on several topics ... you as the GM have just as much room for artistic license as FFG or the average Black Libary author has, if not more.

I was also thinking of having Slaanesh marked Genestealers as a part of an experiment by a band of noise marines in cahoots with Fabius Bile, or something along those lines. But they'd be "neutered", or, in other words had their ovipositors surgically removed. That might give them a bit too much agility though. Orks would seem to be less challenging, and I've always had a soft spot in my immune system for Grandpa Nurgle! But to me Khorne makes more sense since Orks really like killing things.

I'm just going to have them think that their second mission will be cleansing gene-stealers from a space hulk and placing bombs on its reactor to blow it up, but when they show up they'll find said gene-stealers slaughtered brutally and then as they explore they'll be ambushed by Khornate cultists and Berserkers. The mission will remain the same, but they will wind up being improperly prepared! Especially the Tyrannic War Vet!

On that note would a magnitude 40 horde of bloodletters be too difficult for my players for their second mission? For the most part they'd be fighting cultist hordes and at the most 3-6 berserkers at a time. The bloodletters would only appear after the primary objective (planting bombs on a reactor to destroy the space hulk, after killing the dreadnought guarding it), I'm assuming it would be best to give them some kind of warning and strongly advise them to book it back to their thunderhawk, I'm strongly considering playing as their leader for this mission just because I don't want them to be slaughtered so early into the game!

Being their active leader risks railroading if not played carefully. However a suitably overwhelming hoard may encourage a tactical withdrawal unless they are just stupid. This is why they have fate points. If they all wipe then you could have them perhaps fall to their knees wounded, force them to burn fate points to avoid the felling blades of the Khorne daemons and then Roleplay the hull destabilising in their favour.

On that note would a magnitude 40 horde of bloodletters be too difficult for my players for their second mission? For the most part they'd be fighting cultist hordes and at the most 3-6 berserkers at a time. The bloodletters would only appear after the primary objective (planting bombs on a reactor to destroy the space hulk, after killing the dreadnought guarding it), I'm assuming it would be best to give them some kind of warning and strongly advise them to book it back to their thunderhawk, I'm strongly considering playing as their leader for this mission just because I don't want them to be slaughtered so early into the game!

It depends on their weaponry and battle conditions (range!). In DW, gear is often more important than skill. At range, they dont seem to have more staying power than hormagaunts. But if even a small horde manages to charge...

Hordes of Elite-level enemies are always quite dangerous.

Alex

Fluff arguments in play, you wouldn't get Orks with Chaos marks, Orks are just way too primitive and pathetic for a Chaos god to even consider bestowing anything like a mark upon them. I don't think it would happen often at all. However as the GM you can override this, what you say goes of course. If you want to make an Ork with Chaos marks then you are free to. Maybe somehow this particular Ork has garnered favour from the Lord of Skulls.

Actually you did used to get Ork Khorne Stormboyz

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?sa=X&biw=1280&bih=843&tbm=isch&tbnid=xPrUIqSKS9j-iM%3A&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Farchive.4plebs.org%2Ftg%2Fthread%2F26691193&docid=f8_u6Hg89CIcOM&imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.4plebs.org%2Fboards%2Ftg%2Fimage%2F1374%2F63%2F1374636624845.jpg&w=416&h=446&ei=Mr8EU_YCrN7sBtKYgBg&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=1016&page=1&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=0CGsQrQMwBg

I think orks just aren't that itnerested generally in worshipping Chaos. It is not so much that they are pathetic or primitive (both of which actually are debatable) it is more that Chaos don't really have a lot to offer the orks which gork and Mork can't already provide.

A horde of bloodetters will kill your players in close combat, quickly. Like in a round. Isn't it something like 3d10+10 damage that can't be Dodged and has warp weapon?

Avoid hordes for anything but troop-level opponents, I advise. The horde rules exist to let such opponents be a threat, not to make already dangerous things unstoppable.

3d10+12, even. And they have Swift Attack for a bonus swing per round.

That being said, the DW Bloodletters are noted together with Horde traits, so the designers seem to have envisioned them to be used with this option.

Not that I'd truly recommend it, either. DW Hordes work by essentially making any creature both more squishy as well as more dangerous. The Kill Team may have a good chance at easily gunning down a dozen Bloodletters before they get to them, but once they are in melee ... I really don't think the damage bonus part of the Horde rules is much fun, simply due to the sheer range going from "not even a scratch" to "instakill" based on nothing but pure luck.

Perhaps if you'd field this Bloodletter Horde not with Hellblades but just with their Claws? Those are "only" 3d10+10, at least .. and more importantly, unlike with their Dark Heresy version, their Claws are not Warp Weapons, and thus do not ignore armour.

The player characters might actually survive melee with this.

Magnitude 80 Horde of Broadside Battlesuits comin' atcha.

I might use a Bloodletter Horde if there were heavy tanks involved.

.

Ofc it can be done. But by hordifying an Elite-level creature to a sufficient magnitude, you make it Master-level, more or less.

And my gut feeling says that a mag 40 horde of Hormagaunts can be as deadly as Mag 20 Bloodletters. At least it has some buffer to keep it's damage potential.

Also, why don't you give single troop enemies and troop hordes with mag < 10 access to Righteous Fury? That keeps them from being totally unthreatening.

Alex

It is interesting because in my games the PCs are starting to fear the hordes more than the elites because of the sheer number of attacks and potential damage output the lack of dodges. That said combat in my games is somewhat more deadly than perhaps the designers envisaged.

Masters have still been very powerful however.

Next session the PCs take on Orks...that should be fun.

Orks should be fine, just stay out of their choppy range and watch as their crap BS see a billion shots go right past you.

Orks in DW will hit quite a lot due to the +20 for full auto mechanic. BS24 + 20 + 10 for short range = 54%.