I told ya: throw s**t at your players first and then help them wriggle out of it. If they make an effort. If not, watch them die and rot.

Remember this: what's challenging for a normal party is auto-success for marines. So they must be placed into dire straits where only the most heroic maneuvers will get them out of. Conversely, if a marine asks for something that should be near impossible for a human, they should have a chance of making it (if they don't threaten to abuse it).

Alex

So heres the rundown on the Tyranid Mission:

The Kill team will start out with 2 magnitude 120 IG hordes, 2 commissars, 2 Heavy Bolter teams set up behind the first trench, and 1 magnitude 60 Storm Trooper hordes working alongside the commisars, in addition there are 2 Leman Russ's behind the trench.

Here are the waves:

Round 1:

I'm giving them a round to set up first but what they don't know about is the Lictor that has snuck in behind their lines, so they'll have to deal with that if they are able to see through its camouflage (should I send it after the commissars and heavy bolters? I feel like that would impact their defense more if the lictor succeeds in killing one or all of them).

Round 2:

Magnitude 120 Hormagaunts

Magnitude 60 Termagaunts

2 Warriors

Round 4:

Magnitude 90 Hormagaunts

Magnitude 90 Termagaunts

1 Warrior Prime

1 Zoanthrope

Round 5:

Magnitude 120 Hormagaunts

Magnitude 120 Termagaunts

2 Warriors

Round 7:

Magnitude 120 Hormagaunts

Magnitude 90 Termagaunts

1 Carnifex

2 Warriors

Round 8:

REINFORCEMENTS!:

Magnitude 60 Storm Troopers

Magnitude 120 IG

1 Commissar

1 Leman Russ

The Tyranids keep coming though, however this wave will be ranged 'Nids for the most part

2 Zoanthropes

Magnitude 120 Termagaunts

4 Raveners

1 Venom Spitter (Carnifex)

2 Hive Guard

Round 11:

3 Tyrant Guard

1 Hive Tyrant w/ Heavy Venom Cannon & Bone Sword/Lash Whip

2x Magnitude 120 Hormagaunts

Round 16:

REINFORCEMENTS:

At this point the mission will be nearing its end, the 4th Company of the Storm Wardens will show up and probably bombard the hordes of Tyranids, after this shock and awe tactic is over they'll deploy their forces... in force

4 Predators

1 Land Raider Crusader

2 Vindicators

SPESS MEHREENS

I have a question about using non-deathwatch Space Marines, how would I approach employing them in a massed battle? Should I use them as Hordes, or should I approach using them in a different manner?

After the reinforcements arrive the Tyranids will have one more surprise for the Kill-Team...

4 Tyrant Guard

2 Hive Guard

1 Bile Beast (Carnifex)

Magnitude 240 Hormagaunts

and THE DAGON OVERLORD

I feel that the players would be able to handle this with Space Marine support.

Let me know what you think of this! I will be using an NPC character to assist the team, most likely a Chaplain, I'm expecting my players to be at Rank 2 or 3 by this point, but I want to challenge them as well.

Any comments on this? Do you think it would be too difficult after 3 or 4 more missions?

How should I go about pitting my players against waves of orks? I'm assuming that since most of their mook's weapons aren't effective against Space Marines I should compensate by throwing large numbers at them.

They will start off with some help from 2 hordes of penal legion guys and a commissar, but as a twist I'm going to have the commissar's head get blown off by a stray ork bullet. This is their second mission so I'm going to demonstrate commanding friendly hordes and they'll have to keep them from freaking out after their leader dies unexpectedly.

Towards the end there will be more reinforcements to help them mop things up but after they show up a Kaptin is going to appear with a whole bunch of boyz and mega nobz.

That is a lot of baddies! How long do you expect this battle to take in real time? Will your players be able to be engaged at the table long enough for them to consider this fun? Honest question...no sarcasm meant or implied.

Technically not long.

The core book explains somewhere that a round of combat is roughly between 5 and 6 seconds. That would mean that all that happens within only about two minutes in game time however the narrative time is likely to be about ten times that as players roll multiple times for damages, reductions etc.

It is in such circumstances where a GM might want to simply RP some of the hits/attacks and apply the rules of common sense. For example there have been mass battle situations when lesser enemy chaff have been hit by big attacks. Rather than in some instances take a while to work out the exact number of losses, it was deemed more efficient to pluck a roughly accurate value out of the air, this avoided combat being bogged down by taking time to work it out and allowed them to continue with the fun part. Overall the fun was maintained without getting too tied with a numbers game. With so many on each side it may be prudent to consider it.

The core book explains somewhere that a round of combat is roughly between 5 and 6 seconds.

Where we're talking battles of this size, this should probably be ignored. Make each action effectively 5 minutes or something, or you have a big battle that is over way too fast, in-setting.

Technically not long.

The core book explains somewhere that a round of combat is roughly between 5 and 6 seconds. That would mean that all that happens within only about two minutes in game time however the narrative time is likely to be about ten times that as players roll multiple times for damages, reductions etc.

It is in such circumstances where a GM might want to simply RP some of the hits/attacks and apply the rules of common sense. For example there have been mass battle situations when lesser enemy chaff have been hit by big attacks. Rather than in some instances take a while to work out the exact number of losses, it was deemed more efficient to pluck a roughly accurate value out of the air, this avoided combat being bogged down by taking time to work it out and allowed them to continue with the fun part. Overall the fun was maintained without getting too tied with a numbers game. With so many on each side it may be prudent to consider it.

I totally get you as far as in game time is concerned. My concern was the Real time around the table. That kind of battle seems like it would take hours to me. But I have not really played much yet so I am probably off base!

No, it would take hours. Definitely. Even with an OOC time limit imposed on the players to act and with NPC-on-NPC combat being wholly narrative.

From my own experiences, rank 1 Astartes in Deathwatch can dish out a **** ton of damage and take that much as well.

Having said that, my group (I am a GM, this was also my first RPG to GM, so I can empathize) walked all over the first few battles they encountered. As a GM it is your job to mix it up, don't be too predictable. Set up ambushes, make them roll awareness and silent move, try not to always just smash hordes into them - save that for when it makes sense.

Anyways, after annihilating the first few battles they came into an Ork camp. Their mission was to rescue a captured kill marine. Some well placed shots with a needle sniper rifle took out the Ork tower sentries. Then the Assault marine, with a very impressive pilot roll (I believe I made him test at -20) picked up the devastator and flew him into the tower. The orks failed their awareness tests because they were too busy drinking and screaming and making humans fight one another like gladiators.

The Dev started doing his thing and lighting them up while the assault jumped into the horde. Enter two Ork Meganobs who hear the gunfire and respond; they charge the tower. Dev turns and lights one of them up with kraken ammo - pulped him. Destroyed in one round. So, I think "Great, here we go again." But by the next round the living Meganob kept charging and the dev had no line of sight on him. Thinking this wasnt an issue, he began shooting up the horde again.

Meganob charges the tower and power klaws both the supports. Dev has to make AG checks or fall. Fails, falls, damage. And now he is in melee with a meganob with a power klaw. And he **** near dies. It was the combined efforts of two other marines and the dev (sticking krak grenades into its armor with successful WS tests) to finally bring it down.

Just be ready to change things up. Cant attack the Dev? Fine. Attack the tower. Remember that you arent trying to screw your players over, but you are trying to embody the enemy as best you can and do what you truly think they would do. As long as you can remain consistent with not pulling punches and also not going overboard to be unfair, then your players will havea great time.

Technically not long.

The core book explains somewhere that a round of combat is roughly between 5 and 6 seconds. That would mean that all that happens within only about two minutes in game time however the narrative time is likely to be about ten times that as players roll multiple times for damages, reductions etc.

It is in such circumstances where a GM might want to simply RP some of the hits/attacks and apply the rules of common sense. For example there have been mass battle situations when lesser enemy chaff have been hit by big attacks. Rather than in some instances take a while to work out the exact number of losses, it was deemed more efficient to pluck a roughly accurate value out of the air, this avoided combat being bogged down by taking time to work it out and allowed them to continue with the fun part. Overall the fun was maintained without getting too tied with a numbers game. With so many on each side it may be prudent to consider it.

I totally get you as far as in game time is concerned. My concern was the Real time around the table. That kind of battle seems like it would take hours to me. But I have not really played much yet so I am probably off base!

Jesus, in a PbP this would take MONTHS. Literally. And I have my guys updating daily. However, it would read like a novella and be insanely epic. I cant wait to get to a level to do something like this.

As for the non-deathwatch space marines, if you are up to the task, I might place them out as individuals all with a set basic stat block for the lot of them. Another option would be to roll one attack (say ranged vs. the horde) and multiply the hits by how many Astartes are in the Storm Wardens squad. Treat heavy weapons as their own entities. It would be a lot of work, but ultimately it would have more pay off.

I'm going to start avoiding hordes after the last mission. All of my players complain about how they work and the amount of time it takes to wear them down. Next mission is going to be Chaos Marines and heretics with a few daemons as well, no hordes or anything, and it should be challenging enough. Someone suggested using endless hordes instead which should work better.

Its basically going off the adventure seed for noise marines and them broadcasting from a captured relay station. There will be a nice suprise at the end. Though it might not be nice for them.

I'm going to start avoiding hordes after the last mission. All of my players complain about how they work and the amount of time it takes to wear them down. Next mission is going to be Chaos Marines and heretics with a few daemons as well, no hordes or anything, and it should be challenging enough. Someone suggested using endless hordes instead which should work better.

Its basically going off the adventure seed for noise marines and them broadcasting from a captured relay station. There will be a nice suprise at the end. Though it might not be nice for them.

I think a lot depends on the party. The group I am running for is quite capable of downing hordes quicker than they can kill normal opponents. I liked the suggestion some made for having "dangerous hordes" where they had a large weapon (the guy with the rocket launcher) but you could dodge the fire or make a point to take him out so others had to scramble to pick it up.

One of the problems with hordes is when they become less a foe to fight and more a number to wear down. If the players can interact with them in some manner, then they are much more fun both for them and the gm. Similarly, if the horde has some trick it can pull to make itself a genuine threat if the players ignore it, then they will consider them in a tactical sense.

But yes, learn what the characters can deal with, or not and use that knowledge to make an interesting encounter, as you clearly are doing!

I am testing out using small groups of troop level enemies. Groups of 12 or so - not a horde.

I have beefed up some of their stats (not too much) but each outfit always has some sort of special leader unit with some tricks up his sleeve. He will also use his group of lessers as meat shields, and as such called shots will be required to kill the leader until the rest of his group is decimated.

Right now, the leader unit will either carry a krak or two and an autopistol, or a plasma pistol. These Chaos Cultists have been outfitted by Iron Warriors and have access to "chaos blessed" weapons (+1 damage, +2 pen), as well as specialty ammo for the weapons. So, hopefully the Marines take them as a threat and not something to be ignored.

I've actually made a few enemies for my guys to fight using Black Crusade, both are rank 4, but I feel that the team will be capable of taking them on together. If they were alone they'd probably be screwed.

I'm trying to find a way to make a human character in black crusade, who isn't a psyker, that can take on a space marine on mano-y-mano on even ground. Any advice on how to approach it? I'm going to say that dodge should probably be maxed out. And maybe give them a daemon weapon.

I'm trying to find a way to make a human character in black crusade, who isn't a psyker, that can take on a space marine on mano-y-mano on even ground. Any advice on how to approach it? I'm going to say that dodge should probably be maxed out. And maybe give them a daemon weapon.

Multiple +20 Dodges, a good Force Field, and- most importantly- Touched By The Fates (with at least 2-3 Fate Points) should buy him a few rounds. Also, give his daemon weapon the ability to heal its wielder on rounds where it inflicts damage.

I'm trying to find a way to make a human character in black crusade, who isn't a psyker, that can take on a space marine on mano-y-mano on even ground. Any advice on how to approach it? I'm going to say that dodge should probably be maxed out. And maybe give them a daemon weapon.

Multiple +20 Dodges, a good Force Field, and- most importantly- Touched By The Fates (with at least 2-3 Fate Points) should buy him a few rounds. Also, give his daemon weapon the ability to heal its wielder on rounds where it inflicts damage.

I'll have to revamp my Xurunt then.

One of the more frequent encounters in my campaign is going to be with the forces of chaos, and I want to highlight the infighting between followers of the four gods, but I also want there to be some missions that can demonstrate some form of cooperation, between Nurgle and Khorne, and Slaanesh and Tzeentch. But I plan on having it culminate in an encounter that is an all out battle between the forces of the four gods. And its up to the Kill-Team to intervene, with some help from some certain... grey brothers of theirs.

What I'm trying to figure out is how forces of these gods would interact (based on the two divisions I mentioned above) and how I should go about portraying them fighting alongside each other. I know how to play as them individually of course. But there isn't much stuff I've seen in the fluff about these situations.

What I'm trying to figure out is how forces of these gods would interact (based on the two divisions I mentioned above) and how I should go about portraying them fighting alongside each other. I know how to play as them individually of course. But there isn't much stuff I've seen in the fluff about these situations.

Probably more of a question for the BC subforum, but my guess is: compartmentalisation. Even when fighting under the banner of Chaos Undivided, the various forces have a habit of sticking with their own buddies. There could be specific units operating in a single area all taking their orders from different leaders who form a sort of "war council", and even though said leaders may have agreed on a single grand strategy, tactical control lies with individual commanders on the front lines. Ironically, the Imperium often displays the very same attitude, though there it is by a perceived post-Horus-Heresy necessity ("divided we stand"), whereas with Chaos it's simply a question of loyalties.

I'm trying to find a way to make a human character in black crusade, who isn't a psyker, that can take on a space marine on mano-y-mano on even ground.

Between the way TB works in these games, and FFG's "-4 dmg" rule, I'm not sure this is actually intended to happen.

That being said, the vampiric daemon weapon might indeed be a clever way. Also keep in mind that FFG frequently builds their official NPCs by "cheating" with the normal creation rules, so if your aim is to create a challenging NPC then you could always do the same.

One of the more frequent encounters in my campaign is going to be with the forces of chaos, and I want to highlight the infighting between followers of the four gods, but I also want there to be some missions that can demonstrate some form of cooperation, between Nurgle and Khorne, and Slaanesh and Tzeentch. But I plan on having it culminate in an encounter that is an all out battle between the forces of the four gods. And its up to the Kill-Team to intervene, with some help from some certain... grey brothers of theirs.

One possibility: a powerful Chaos (Undivided) Lord- possibly a lieutenant of Abaddon himself- has united a group of rival warbands with promises of great power if they do his bidding. That works for a while, then your Grey Knights kill this leader, and the warbands immediately revert to their old ways, attacking each other (with the GKs in the crossfire).

Between the way TB works in these games, and FFG's "-4 dmg" rule, I'm not sure this is actually intended to happen.

That being said, the vampiric daemon weapon might indeed be a clever way. Also keep in mind that FFG frequently builds their official NPCs by "cheating" with the normal creation rules, so if your aim is to create a challenging NPC then you could always do the same.

You could misreading TB though. How would you like if every TB point over 3 subtracted 1 from damage instead? And if every point below added 1 to damage? Now if you also subtract 3 from all weapon damages you have the same system as RAW, translated by 3 points. Conversely, add 20 to all weapon damages as well as the soak that TB provides. "OMG, Toughness is more powerful than Terminator Armour, how unrealistic!!!" Although nothing has really changed then either.

TB rules are just fine, weapon damages have been designed so that you can comfortably deduct TB instead of having to use -1, -2 or +1 modifiers. Now whether a -5 damage modifier (TB 8) for marines is justified, that's another story.

The traditional way to make individuals of a "lesser" species (much less point value in TT) equivalent of superior species is to make them "heroes" of their species by adding to their WS. BS, Init, Wounds , Leadership. So to compensate for lack of TB 8, give more Wound Points. 20, 30 or 40 points over what their species has is not impossible. But these would be rare, unique individuals. Great heroes or villains. Just the type the Deathwatch meets more regularly than others.

Human that can take on an Astartes? WS 50, BS 50, Wounds 55, Agility 47, Willpower 45, Touched By The Fates(3).

Killing Strike might be your biggest problem, if your Astartes player knows how to use it. Only defence is a Force Field effect (a blessing by the Dark Gods?). In melee, a chaos weapon that ignores armour and at least 2 attacks. Perhaps supplemented by an off-hand infernus pistol.

Again, go big or go home.

Alex

You could misreading TB though. How would you like if every TB point over 3 subtracted 1 from damage instead? And if every point below added 1 to damage? Now if you also subtract 3 from all weapon damages you have the same system as RAW, translated by 3 points. Conversely, add 20 to all weapon damages as well as the soak that TB provides. "OMG, Toughness is more powerful than Terminator Armour, how unrealistic!!!" Although nothing has really changed then either.

Setting the threshold at 3 really makes you sound biased against Humans.

Personally, I dislike "jumps" or "gaps" in general - it feels as if the system feels a need to cheat in order to convey some idea it is desperate to push. I want to see at least the potential for a gradual progression that makes stuff look somewhat natural, and this discounts "switches" that suddenly multiply* various bonuses or even invert an entire mechanic after reaching a specific threshold.

There's a scale of 1 to 100. The game should make use of it instead of trying to shove every single character into a range of 30-50.

*: sidenote - flat multipliers are a silly idea in any game, and it deserves to be said so again. I'm glad they dropped this in favour of a somewhat more reasonable "+X" in the following games.

TB rules are just fine, weapon damages have been designed so that you can comfortably deduct TB instead of having to use -1, -2 or +1 modifiers. Now whether a -5 damage modifier (TB 8) for marines is justified, that's another story.

It's not just Marines and their -8 to -10 soak (or -16 to -20 with PA). I was fine with TB at the start of my gaming experience with Dark Heresy, but it didn't take very long until I saw the problems that come with this RPG line's habit of stacking layers of protection with bog-standard Humans as well. Between armour, toughness and wounds, veteran player characters become hilariously resilient. So much so that it can be both harmful to immersion and that it has desperate GMs come to this forum to ask how they can still threaten their characters without making melta weaponry the default loadout for random street thugs.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd love if the rules were a bit more hardcore, reflecting the power these weapons have in both the fluff and the tabletop ... rather than people's naked face getting nothing but a nice tan from a las round.

But you already know my preference for GW's original d100 "Inquisitor" injury rules, right?

Toughness reducing the effects of injury , rather than just preventing them altogether , seems a whole lot more realistic to me.

This is indeed a good advice for Igneus. As mentioned in official documents, FFG NPC profiles are "cheating" and circumventing normal character creation rules already, so just throwing a ton of Wounds at the profile might help a lot. Conveniently, this is about a Chaos character, so you actually have an explanation for when your players wonder how on Holy Terra that guy (or gal) can be so tough.

Personally, I dislike "jumps" or "gaps" in general - it feels as if the system feels a need to cheat in order to convey some idea it is desperate to push. I want to see at least the potential for a gradual progression that makes stuff look somewhat natural, and this discounts "switches" that suddenly multiply* various bonuses or even invert an entire mechanic after reaching a specific threshold.

There's a scale of 1 to 100. The game should make use of it instead of trying to shove every single character into a range of 30-50.

*: sidenote - flat multipliers are a silly idea in any game, and it deserves to be said so again. I'm glad they dropped this in favour of a somewhat more reasonable "+X" in the following games.

I can't fully disagree. Though the game does work with Unnaturalx2, it's perhaps not ideal. But then again, the concept of an Unnatural Characteristic isn't half bad if it means: someone with Unnatural strength automatically wins in arm wrestling against anyone without. A straight opposed test of S 20 versus S 80 wouldn't lead to realistic results either.

Call me old-fashioned, but I'd love if the rules were a bit more hardcore, reflecting the power these weapons have in both the fluff and the tabletop ... rather than people's naked face getting nothing but a nice tan from a las round.

We have talked about it before, no? RAW weapons aren't too deadly, agreed... I think it's a concession to casual gamers. Luckily, the fix to the problem is easy... add x to all burst capable weapons and perhaps up to double that to SS only weapons.

But you already know my preference for GW's original d100 "Inquisitor" injury rules, right?

Toughness reducing the effects of injury , rather than just preventing them altogether , seems a whole lot more realistic to me.

You mentioned it once or twice before, I believe.

Write down how it works and I'll put it on my blog for reference.

This is indeed a good advice for Igneus. As mentioned in official documents, FFG NPC profiles are "cheating" and circumventing normal character creation rules already, so just throwing a ton of Wounds at the profile might help a lot. Conveniently, this is about a Chaos character, so you actually have an explanation for when your players wonder how on Holy Terra that guy (or gal) can be so tough.

Wait, why do have NPCs to stick to rules for PC char gen and progression? DH takes characters from 10 to about 20 Wound points aka 2 Wound characters. Why shouldn't other people's life paths take them beyond?

Wounds in DW are a different thing altogether as they are horribly, horribly overpriced. They should all come at 200xp.

Alex

I can't fully disagree. Though the game does work with Unnaturalx2, it's perhaps not ideal. But then again, the concept of an Unnatural Characteristic isn't half bad if it means: someone with Unnatural strength automatically wins in arm wrestling against anyone without. A straight opposed test of S 20 versus S 80 wouldn't lead to realistic results either.

But that's now how it works in the game. The silly thing is that, in a hypothetical arm wrestling contest between an S 55 veteran Storm Trooper and an US 40 Space Marine, it's the Trooper who has the best chance at winning.

Unnatural Traits are messing with immersion left and right, sometimes in favour of these characters, sometimes to their detriment.

There's two easy solutions for this issue (provided you agree it actually is one):

The current range of characteristics is maintained, but the gap between characters is narrowed and advancements are made smaller. An example for Strength: bog-standard Human characters start at around 30 and have 5 advancements of +3 each, maxing out at 45. Astartes start at around 50 and have 5 advancements of +2 each, maxing out at 60.

This should be largely compatible with current Test thresholds and actually maintains a minimum of distance between Human vets and Astartes that, funnily, does not exist in the RAW, because in Tests Unnaturals just don't work as a substitute. To compensate for the smaller characteristics gain I would put a greater emphasis on Skills by adding a third tier (for a total of +30).

Alternatively, as has been suggested by someone else, we should just throw the 100 limit over board and say "why the hell not" to characters with stats around 80 or 90 - because even though they'll ace the Tests that are supposed to be challenging for lesser people, an adventure may well feature challenges that would be nigh-impossible for normal Humans, but "only" challenging for an S 80 Space Marine. For example: prying open an airlock with your bare hands as a Test with a whopping -60 difficulty modifier.

Personally, I prefer the smaller advances, but the second option is essentially how GW's Inquisitor game dealt with it. I mean, their Space Marines had Strength 200. In a d100 system.

We have talked about it before, no? RAW weapons aren't too deadly, agreed... I think it's a concession to casual gamers. Luckily, the fix to the problem is easy... add x to all burst capable weapons and perhaps up to double that to SS only weapons.

But it's not that simple. Yes, obviously it's a concession, because "instadeath" RPGs are not very popular. But the problem isn't that the weapons are not deadly enough - they are balanced perfectly for the lower levels (okay, almost perfectly), which is why I felt satisfied with it back when I started DH.

The problem is that later levels have characters gain resilience on multiple fronts .. so much so that it quickly becomes too much for the weapons to handle!

Remove one or two of these resiliences, and the problem is gone! There's no need to scare the "casuals" away with instadeath weapons. Just make sure that stuff that is dangerous in both the fluff and the TT stays dangerous in the RPG even at later levels. Barring few exceptions (=the most primitive weapons), a character's resilience should lower the risk of injury (or its effects - I still think that is a better use of Toughness), but never make it go away entirely.

Wait, why do have NPCs to stick to rules for PC char gen and progression?

They don't - not here, anyways. That's why I've mentioned this. Some people seem to be confused by the official profiles, else it would not have been a question in the FAQ.

But personally, I'd appreciate if NPCs would adhere to what is achievable for player characters. Call it a weird preference of mine, but I don't like when a system seems incapable of adhering to its own rules and just "handwaves" stuff seemingly at random. It makes it feel less like a living, breathing world, if you get my meaning.

I'm sure it is connected to my silly wish for a uniform RPG ruleset representative of the entirety of 40k, rather than being tooled and tweaked towards a specific, narrow part of it.

I'm not saying that one method is either superior or inferior to the other, as I believe this is very much a matter of personal preferences, but it's an important difference when it comes to the various "schools of GMing".

So I'm down to two players now, they are the more knowledgeable ones concerning fluff and they're going to be going for a BA Librarian and Salamanders Techmarine team. I'm wondering if I should adjust their encounters so they don't get too overwhelmed.

Has anyone else here gm'ed for only 2 players before and have any advice?

So I'm down to two players now, they are the more knowledgeable ones concerning fluff and they're going to be going for a BA Librarian and Salamanders Techmarine team. I'm wondering if I should adjust their encounters so they don't get too overwhelmed.

Has anyone else here gm'ed for only 2 players before and have any advice?

I'm not a big fan of giving players multiple characters to run, but in this case you might want to consider 2 PCs per player (an Apothecary and an Assault or Tactical Marine would be very useful additions to your current build). DW is designed around squads , after all...