Ah, I saw "level upgrading" and my mind went to D20...

Ah, I saw "level upgrading" and my mind went to D20...

No, that would be a disaster. No d20 leveling.

Just as i wrote, a mix of Ranks from WFRP 3e and SW career system but with basic and advanced careers.

Cheers

On a related note, here's how NOT to do it: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?711393-Earthdawn-4th-Edition-Announced-Today

Summary of above:

* minor fixes to the rules

* recycled stuff

* company bought out a name

* company treated fans like crap

Anyways, this thread really belongs on the House Rules discussion section at this point.

I'd also settle for a sticky or separate category where the Usual Culprits could perpetually discuss 4, 5, and 6E

Also...yeah....poor Earthdawn.

On a related note, here's how NOT to do it: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?711393-Earthdawn-4th-Edition-Announced-Today

Summary of above:

* minor fixes to the rules

* recycled stuff

* company bought out a name

* company treated fans like crap

Anyways, this thread really belongs on the House Rules discussion section at this point.

I'd also settle for a sticky or separate category where the Usual Culprits could perpetually discuss 4, 5, and 6E

Also...yeah....poor Earthdawn.

No good having a go at people.

4th Edition will happen probably not this year, more likely 2015 or 2016. Unlikely that FFG will listen to anything said here for the initial Beta, though they will almost certainly do a Beta.

On a related note, here's how NOT to do it: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?711393-Earthdawn-4th-Edition-Announced-Today

Summary of above:

* minor fixes to the rules

* recycled stuff

* company bought out a name

* company treated fans like crap

Anyways, this thread really belongs on the House Rules discussion section at this point.

I'd also settle for a sticky or separate category where the Usual Culprits could perpetually discuss 4, 5, and 6E

Also...yeah....poor Earthdawn.

No good having a go at people.

4th Edition will happen probably not this year, more likely 2015 or 2016. Unlikely that FFG will listen to anything said here for the initial Beta, though they will almost certainly do a Beta.

Should be interesting to see if they actually do remake the game.

I don't know... I guess my final input here is....4E...great, whenever, whatever. As far as FFG in general, I support them and enjoy their games and that's the only thing that really matters to me, period. If I ever find myself in the position that many of you seem to be in, where I'm just unhappy with large volumes of the company's work, I think I'll just own up to the fact that the problem is probably me, and simply take my money somewhere else and not perpetually bludgeon the web with my woes. Good gaming to all. As you were.

Yes, the thing that happened to WFRP is not good. I think that even GW has lost themself in WFRP, and that makes the biggest problem. Fist thing that should hapen is GW to give a more free hand to FFG on the setting so they can create more materials. The reprinting thig would be a mistake, they should create new content and expand those that where in previous editions.

Second a beta would be a nice thing to see. But not a pdf but a printed book. SW has betas printed but DH 2e did not - for me that was a mistake. A mistake becouse the printed book is , for me, a lot easier to use on a session and gives You that feeling that You got a real thing in your hands. Besides pdfs are easy to pirate and when people like to steal rights then pdf make it easier for them.

3rd a new edition should be only printed without pdfs. For the same reason as above. And t should then get a Begginers Box so everyone could try it without having to buy the core rulebook.

The 4e, if it will come, will be I think avaliable as beta at the end of this year but more likely next one.

FFG created a good game with WFRP 3e but it had to many experimetal mechanics. They improved that with SW so the game is easier to play and run without having to buy a large table. If FFg will make a 4e and can only hope that they learned from there mistakes and make out of it a excelent game.

Cheers and happy gaming (in any edition You play)

I just readed a topic about how big or strong monsters never miss. This is another problem to be fixed if a new edition will come. It shoudl have more stats like WFRP 1e or 2e had, maybe not that much but close to that. This would give a even bigger range of charcters and enemies. Thre could be fast charasters that are weak but hit more times there target, or enemies that could be strong but clumsy and had a smaller chance to hit PC.

And one more thing that I think i missed in this editon are places of hits. In 3e having a helmet does not give You nothing special, or having armour only on the right arm. In previuos edition every hit had a location it hits. So when You had a helmet and the hit was in the head You took less damage. Maybe they should consider also so mechanics for that.

And of course I do not know why in 3e the equipment list is so short? There should be lists, tables with a lot of equipment. In 2ed, if I remamber good, there was a single book dedicated only to equipment, trade, armours, weapons and a lot more. Why in 3e was nothing like that, I do not know?

Cheers

I just readed a topic about how big or strong monsters never miss. This is another problem to be fixed if a new edition will come. It shoudl have more stats like WFRP 1e or 2e had, maybe not that much but close to that. This would give a even bigger range of charcters and enemies. Thre could be fast charasters that are weak but hit more times there target, or enemies that could be strong but clumsy and had a smaller chance to hit PC.

And one more thing that I think i missed in this editon are places of hits. In 3e having a helmet does not give You nothing special, or having armour only on the right arm. In previuos edition every hit had a location it hits. So when You had a helmet and the hit was in the head You took less damage. Maybe they should consider also so mechanics for that.

And of course I do not know why in 3e the equipment list is so short? There should be lists, tables with a lot of equipment. In 2ed, if I remamber good, there was a single book dedicated only to equipment, trade, armours, weapons and a lot more. Why in 3e was nothing like that, I do not know?

Cheers

This is pretty easy stuff to grasp, imo. This is an abstract narrative system. What you describe is more in line with a simulator such as Pathfinder or Shadowrun. Neither this game or Star Wars are setup to tackle the mechanics in this manner. Same goes for the equipment list. They are even more up front and clear on this, detailing the reason for the short list in the game text itself .... You get a generic entry for "weapon x". the GM can then take that baseline stat and quickly stat up an item to make available to the players. One chart quickly takes care of the business that other systems spend chapters handling.

I love simulators. I paid 30 bucks for a Shadowrun book stuffed full of charts and lists and 5000 weapons that are exactly the same outside of model number and a +1 or -1 here or there. That's great for that system, I suppose. I don't see a reason for it in 3E.

The more I've made it through this drek the more I'm understanding your point of view though. I think you really like 2E. I like 2E as well. But if our combined vision for 4E is nothing more than a rehashed 2E then what's the point? I think I agree with Jay that when this comes up in the future I'm going to have to consider it a 2E House Rule conversation.

The efforts to keep this wreck at the top of the forums is quite admirable. I hope everyone is satisfied.

I just readed a topic about how big or strong monsters never miss. This is another problem to be fixed if a new edition will come. It shoudl have more stats like WFRP 1e or 2e had, maybe not that much but close to that. This would give a even bigger range of charcters and enemies. Thre could be fast charasters that are weak but hit more times there target, or enemies that could be strong but clumsy and had a smaller chance to hit PC.

And one more thing that I think i missed in this editon are places of hits. In 3e having a helmet does not give You nothing special, or having armour only on the right arm. In previuos edition every hit had a location it hits. So when You had a helmet and the hit was in the head You took less damage. Maybe they should consider also so mechanics for that.

And of course I do not know why in 3e the equipment list is so short? There should be lists, tables with a lot of equipment. In 2ed, if I remamber good, there was a single book dedicated only to equipment, trade, armours, weapons and a lot more. Why in 3e was nothing like that, I do not know?

Cheers

This is pretty easy stuff to grasp, imo. This is an abstract narrative system. What you describe is more in line with a simulator such as Pathfinder or Shadowrun. Neither this game or Star Wars are setup to tackle the mechanics in this manner. Same goes for the equipment list. They are even more up front and clear on this, detailing the reason for the short list in the game text itself .... You get a generic entry for "weapon x". the GM can then take that baseline stat and quickly stat up an item to make available to the players. One chart quickly takes care of the business that other systems spend chapters handling.

I love simulators. I paid 30 bucks for a Shadowrun book stuffed full of charts and lists and 5000 weapons that are exactly the same outside of model number and a +1 or -1 here or there. That's great for that system, I suppose. I don't see a reason for it in 3E.

The more I've made it through this drek the more I'm understanding your point of view though. I think you really like 2E. I like 2E as well. But if our combined vision for 4E is nothing more than a rehashed 2E then what's the point? I think I agree with Jay that when this comes up in the future I'm going to have to consider it a 2E House Rule conversation.

The efforts to keep this wreck at the top of the forums is quite admirable. I hope everyone is satisfied.

Actually he is not arguing for 2nd edition at all, though that may be your interpretation.

This thread and the 3.5 thread on the House rules thread are a complete waste of time. FFG have only got two options:

1. A Fourth edition that may be based on what they have learnt from SW but will be another major step onwards, otherwise it will be a waste of time.

2. FFG do nothing at all with WFRP until either they choose not to renew the license or GW takes it back off them.

Those people hoping for a rehash of 2nd or 3rd edition are deluding themselves. Both are dead from FFG and GW's point of view. I am afraid your only hope would be if GW take the license back and issue it to some firm who does want to do a rehash, though I do not think even GW are that stupid.

I'm not a great fan of 2e but I liked that it covered so much of the Old World. Not only Empire, but Bretonia, Kislev, Chaos Wastes and even Skaven. And it's sad that 3e did not have so much material about all that - not a complete reprint but with new stuff.

When 3e come it was a blast for me. I was excited and took a lot of time playing it and enjoying. But with every expansion something seemed wrong, like the idea of max 3 Rank characters, too much cards (many of those never come to the table). And the biggest problem was that when I wanted to play anywhere I needed a lot of space.

When I would have to say what of those was better I would say - I liked 3e better but I can't get of the feeling that it's not well tested.

About the dead of WFRP 3e - noone can confirm it but looking at lack of news and support it looks like it. The licence ends this year. Let's hope that FFG will clear the situation, continue the licence and bring new life to WFRP.

Cheers

I just readed a topic about how big or strong monsters never miss. This is another problem to be fixed if a new edition will come. It shoudl have more stats like WFRP 1e or 2e had, maybe not that much but close to that. This would give a even bigger range of charcters and enemies. Thre could be fast charasters that are weak but hit more times there target, or enemies that could be strong but clumsy and had a smaller chance to hit PC.

And one more thing that I think i missed in this editon are places of hits. In 3e having a helmet does not give You nothing special, or having armour only on the right arm. In previuos edition every hit had a location it hits. So when You had a helmet and the hit was in the head You took less damage. Maybe they should consider also so mechanics for that.

And of course I do not know why in 3e the equipment list is so short? There should be lists, tables with a lot of equipment. In 2ed, if I remamber good, there was a single book dedicated only to equipment, trade, armours, weapons and a lot more. Why in 3e was nothing like that, I do not know?

Cheers

This is pretty easy stuff to grasp, imo. This is an abstract narrative system. What you describe is more in line with a simulator such as Pathfinder or Shadowrun. Neither this game or Star Wars are setup to tackle the mechanics in this manner. Same goes for the equipment list. They are even more up front and clear on this, detailing the reason for the short list in the game text itself .... You get a generic entry for "weapon x". the GM can then take that baseline stat and quickly stat up an item to make available to the players. One chart quickly takes care of the business that other systems spend chapters handling.

I love simulators. I paid 30 bucks for a Shadowrun book stuffed full of charts and lists and 5000 weapons that are exactly the same outside of model number and a +1 or -1 here or there. That's great for that system, I suppose. I don't see a reason for it in 3E.

The more I've made it through this drek the more I'm understanding your point of view though. I think you really like 2E. I like 2E as well. But if our combined vision for 4E is nothing more than a rehashed 2E then what's the point? I think I agree with Jay that when this comes up in the future I'm going to have to consider it a 2E House Rule conversation.

The efforts to keep this wreck at the top of the forums is quite admirable. I hope everyone is satisfied.

Actually he is not arguing for 2nd edition at all, though that may be your interpretation.

This thread and the 3.5 thread on the House rules thread are a complete waste of time. FFG have only got two options:

1. A Fourth edition that may be based on what they have learnt from SW but will be another major step onwards, otherwise it will be a waste of time.

2. FFG do nothing at all with WFRP until either they choose not to renew the license or GW takes it back off them.

Those people hoping for a rehash of 2nd or 3rd edition are deluding themselves. Both are dead from FFG and GW's point of view. I am afraid your only hope would be if GW take the license back and issue it to some firm who does want to do a rehash, though I do not think even GW are that stupid.

It is my interpretation because we have this conversation about twice a year. Sorry for the lack of context there. Beren and I actually have a lot more in common than a quick breeze-through of our banter would suggest

I don't disagree with your other points, though. WFRP with an EotE skin is a step backwards so I don't expect it. I'm actually hoping that #2 happens and the wfrp rpg line disappears for a while and lets the dust settle from the heavy narrative/light crunch offerings that are frankly dominating the market right now. It's easy to forget the wargamming roots with this setting and I am actually in agreement that a WFRP game needs teeth, be that in the form of medium to heavy rulesets or components. This has never seemed like a "sit under the tree and tell campfire stories" kind of game although I can appreciate if that's the kind of thing you'd like to see for the setting.

Thankfully, we all know what's best for FFG Lol.

Cheers

I think we all agre that a reprint of 2e or conversion into SW skin would be not right. WFRP need something more to catch the feeling of the setting. I'm very ciriuos how it will go on and what FFG does with the licence. Will they extend it or not? This is the last year of the licence so we will see, let's hope FFG will annouce something on there page.

It would be nice if they would continue the licence for both warhammer worlds or even extend it to making miniaturesso they could do a new Warhammer Quest edition.

Cheers

PS. Of course they could also do a Warhammer Quest card game and use the mechanics from WFRP 3e. This could be interesting.

Looking at an article on the GW stock fall thread, it is obvious that GW are not going to take back the franchise because they make far too much money out of FFG for doing very little.

The other obvious point unfortunately is that GW make too much money out of IP, so they are not going to loosen the IP reins at all, which are very tight as I know from friends who have done freelance work for FFG on WFRP. The latter is almost certainly why we have not had an elven supplement and why we will probably never get one. Same for Araby, Tilea, Estalia and Sartosa. Even Brettonia is unlikely simply because the Brettonian army book is way over due and they certainly are not going to let anybody do a WFRP Brettonian book until they have got their Army book sorted.

Why this applies to WFRP and not he 40K stuff I do not know, but I do not think we will see FFG doing the WFRP equivalent of SW Suns of Fortune (Corellian supplement) anytime in the future. It may be that WFRP is just too much trouble now and we will not see anything at all for the forseeable future or at least nothing with any substance, which a lot of us would like to see.

Sorry to be depressing but GW and FFG are only going to do things which makes financial sense to them, and at the moment that means WFRP fans are going to be left sorely disappointed for the forseeable future. If FFG do produce anything new it is likely to be very fluff light, much like 3rd edition.

I really hope I am wrong!!

I do really hope you are wrong Ragnar63, but there is too much truth in those things You have wrote.

I don't understand why in W40k FFg has almost free hands and can create what they want. Make new sectors and produce new supplements and with WFRP they have there hands tied. This is wierd if not sick.

GW should think really hard on that becouse in 2e they did give the BL the oportunity to create new content they way they wanted. It was nice becouse it looked like fans where satysfied and the game did well. GW should give FFG free way to create content for WFRP but it's a dream I think. GW is not interested in fans of the setting but on money that's the only thing what they are interested in. Even looking at there GW site it looks like WF is on the end of the list of there interest. That's a sad thing.

Cheers

Why this applies to WFRP and not he 40K stuff I do not know, but I do not think we will see FFG doing the WFRP equivalent of SW Suns of Fortune (Corellian supplement) anytime in the future. It may be that WFRP is just too much trouble now and we will not see anything at all for the forseeable future or at least nothing with any substance, which a lot of us would like to see.

Suns of Fortune is a fantastic supplement. If that's an indication of what FFG can kick out when given the opportunity to do so I can only speculate that GW must have held things really tight and in check throughout all 3 editions of this rpg. Black Fire Pass was a step in the right direction but just imagine how rich the world would be if the same brush strokes were applied. GW is a frustrating thing to love. It's as if they don't want my money.

Parts of Black Fire Pass would have been better but FFG caught a cold.

When I first got 3e I was very excited and hoped that FFG will do for this edition that what BL did for 2e - expand the Old World. And now we are here when we all know that GW tied there hands and wants total control over every supplement and every game that is based on there licence. This is a sick situation.

Suns of Fortune is great example what FFG can do with a licnce and how they can create amazing content when they have the opportunity to do so and the licence owner does not block them.

I think that's how it should work - when you get the licence you should stay with the setting and it's feeling but also have a chance to expand it, make it bigger, better and give it a deeper look.

I can only hope that something like this will happen to WFRP,

Cheers

GW is a frustrating thing to love. It's as if they don't want my money.

.

They don't particularly. They proved that with 2nd edition. When things got tough for them, they decided that WFRP was not making enough of a profit and so sold the license on to FFG. Roleplayers do not figure in their thinking. That is why they make sure nothing that FFG do could conflict with any future Warhammer Army books. Where 40K has the advantage is that they are dealing with a universe out there not just one small part of one world. There is far more scope for innovation.

They don't particularly. They proved that with 2nd edition. When things got tough for them, they decided that WFRP was not making enough of a profit and so sold the license on to FFG. Roleplayers do not figure in their thinking. That is why they make sure nothing that FFG do could conflict with any future Warhammer Army books. Where 40K has the advantage is that they are dealing with a universe out there not just one small part of one world. There is far more scope for innovation.

Love that irrational thinkinmg of someone at GW. - "Let FFG publish some extra expansions fo that Warhammer Fantasy would be more popular so we would make more money! Hmm. no wait we can not becouse when we are going to make a dwarf rulebook in 10 years from now then that what they could create will be in conflict with that what we could make."

The GW IP policy is so abstract and ,sorry for the hard words but, stupid that it does not even fit in the irractional. They could make more money but they refuse becouse it could be in conflict in the future with that what they could create (not even created now).

GW created an amazing IP, then threw it out the window and butchered it to suit a PvP tabletop game.

The RPG side of the business doesn't even get a consideration, they've been outsourcing it since WFRP1.

I am at the point where, as an RPer, they have taken their IP into a completely different direction over the last (almost) 30 years that I've pretty much given up on them. For me it's all the "artillery" steampunk elements like gyrocopters and steamtanks that kill it. Also the Storm of Chaos was an absolute joke on all accounts.

Shadows over Esteren is a viable shift I am thinking for a similar game/setting. I have even toyed with moving to Vampire Dark Ages, WoD Storyteller system.

Nothing else really ticks the "similar to earth, multiple humanoid races, gritty dark fantasy" yet, but when something else does show up like this (ie Zweihander) I will be out of here lie there's no tomorrow, and GW can stick it. For good.

Yes, your not the only one that is thinking about changing the system.

Maybe FFG would do a different Fantasy RPG - maybe the long awaited and many times mentioned by fans Terrinoth RPG.

Then I could use it and set my adventures in the Old World.

If thing go this - GW will still be blocking WFRP and FFg will not publish nothing for it - I will go to a different setting and mechanics. Maybe I will play more SW or will try to complete WFRP 2e to have fun. Who knows.

I rememeber WFRP 1e, that was a blast, free world and that great feeling with a lot of dark humor. Yes, those where the times.

And GW is not learning from there mistakes - closing WFRP line, keep RPG fans tight to WFB - don,t know why? and not giving publishers more free space to create great games. Great gams means more slod and that leads to more money.

GW did some siriuos mistakes like that one with Storm of Chaso and Archaon.

Maybe the time is comming to say good bye to Warhammer Fantasy or play it using different mechanics - no official ones that GW could lay there hands on it.

Cheers

PS. Is it just my imagination or every fan of WFRP does not like GW for what it does to WFRP setting?

Yes, your not the only one that is thinking about changing the system.

Maybe FFG would do a different Fantasy RPG - maybe the long awaited and many times mentioned by fans Terrinoth RPG.

Then I could use it and set my adventures in the Old World.

If thing go this - GW will still be blocking WFRP and FFg will not publish nothing for it - I will go to a different setting and mechanics. Maybe I will play more SW or will try to complete WFRP 2e to have fun. Who knows.

I rememeber WFRP 1e, that was a blast, free world and that great feeling with a lot of dark humor. Yes, those where the times.

And GW is not learning from there mistakes - closing WFRP line, keep RPG fans tight to WFB - don,t know why? and not giving publishers more free space to create great games. Great gams means more slod and that leads to more money.

GW did some siriuos mistakes like that one with Storm of Chaso and Archaon.

Maybe the time is comming to say good bye to Warhammer Fantasy or play it using different mechanics - no official ones that GW could lay there hands on it.

Cheers

PS. Is it just my imagination or every fan of WFRP does not like GW for what it does to WFRP setting?

Yeah all good points. I think mechanics wise, 2nd Ed and 3rd Ed are pretty decent, but in need of fine tuning or house rule heavy. They're both far from perfect though.

I loved 1st Ed, perhaps mostly because initially it didn't have all those extra lore supplements it felt more free to me. It was, effectively, lore lite. Everything was in that one book initially, even town and settlement templates. You had to go fishing through WFB books if you wanted extra lore.

Get 3 players in a group, one from each edition of the game and you have so much potential for players blocking setting feel because of the lore and setting changes made since 86 due to WFB. I've really had to spell out setting differences quite clearly.

It's not their core business so GW doesn't care about WFRP. They get paid by whoever uses their IP regardless - (I'd love to know if this is a fixed fee or if it's % based). Their main income is from PC games and mini's etc.

I haven't met a WFRP or WFB player that played 1st Ed and liked SoC changes. The WFRP guys (1st Ed anyway) hate the forced change of setting and move towards a broken land (shifting the setting away from intrigue) and the WFB guys hated that it was all scripted even though Chaos got their butts handed to them.

What I think makes WFRP great.

Setting:

* geography is modelled off our real world so easy to relate to (ie Tilea / Italy)

* low fantasy so it feels a lot more real and gritty

* magic is rare ie few magic (more likely cursed) items or casters

* it includes only a few core playable meta races (not hundreds like other systems)

* black powder / renaissance instead of dark ages adds a bit of spice

Mechanics:

* death isn't just 0HP and a Constitution check

* severe critical wounds

* mutations

* disease

* insanity

* career system instead of class

* at higher levels players get better at what they do, but they stay vulnerable (not invincible like other systems)

* mechanics aren't tied to a battle grid and leave room for more narrative combat

I think this is what will make Zweihander great - it looks as though they'll cover these mechanical elements but will leave a lot of room free for GM's to tailor the setting. I think they're negotiating with the Dark Albion guys.

Oh and yes, most people that understand how much GW have gouged it's loyal fans hate them but love the setting lol.

Often I feel like I have to do so much research/homework spread across all editions of the books to double check lore accuracy that I do feel it bogs the setting down, not improves it tbh - I don't think many will agree with me here though.

EDIT: 3rd Ed felt broader, less hyper detailed and specific with the lore ie Wizard apprenticeship specifics not being 50 pages like in 2nd Ed. I liked the 3rd Ed simplifications, it left room for me to GM and created less homework.

You catched what makes WFRP so special but GW is ruining that feeling. GW is destroying Warhammer Fantasy by slowly adding steampunk elements to it and with that total control over every project that uses that setting.

I was thinking what FFG could do if they would stay with the licence. And I can think of only one thing that could be made that would catch the feeling of WFRP, still use some of those mechanics from 3e and do not come in opposite with GW vision ( so they can't block it). For me the anwser would be Warhammer Quest but made from the start. FFG could use the action cards mechanic and special dice from WFRP 3e, mix it with there experience from Descent and Lord Of The Rings LCG and ad something more/ something new. Out of that mix they could create a card/board game with dice where players would take on the roles as heroes and go on adventures. In such a game you could play a troll Slayer or a bretonian knight and quest against chaos/orcs/skaven or other treat. Some adventures could be dungeon crawls while other more investigation type ones and all that played without the GM/Overlord just controled by the mechanics or cards. Maybe if they will still have the licence someone at FFG will create such a game but at this point it is a dream and on my wishlist.

If it comes to WFRP I see it future as much darker then the setting. GW will block every initiative to create some innovative titles for it and will keep a tied grip on the IP also on the Warhammer Fantasy vision that they have. When the first news about WFRP 3e come I thought it would be the holy graal of WFRP. One (3e) that will have and gather all the stuff that was created so far in one edition. So in one greatly published edition we would have a book about the Empire, Kislev, Bretonia, Chaos Wastes or even more. Even now it would be like a must have if FFG would publish a series of hardback books with materials from each edition in one place. If FFG would do something like that it would be an instant buy for me. But it all looks like it will only be a dream forever. As much as I would love to see WFRP becoming bigger and greater and assume it will not be so. FFG has the power, money and could do this becouse they have great designers also know how to do this this but GW will block them from all sides. This is a wasted potential.

Cheers

Yeah I agree mate.

I'm looking forward to the elusive "completed" edition too. It will never happen though. Either GW pulls the license, the publisher goes broke before and closes the doors or they just give up on WFRP due to GW and their tight fists.

I totally agree, if it was ever going to happen it would happen under FFG. FFG abandoning WFRP3 proves that there's not enough money in it after they pay GW their cut.

WFRP3 spread too many optional rules throughout too many supplements. They should have stuck all the rules in one place and used supplements for lore and locations.