there is old fluff about khonite stormboyz.

There's also old fluff with Khornate Genestealer Cults.

The Rogue Trader (1st Ed 40K) days are over. A lot of concepts from those days are not coming back.

BYE

It's a big galaxy. There's room enough for that zaniness to happen exactly once.

thank you

there is old fluff about khonite stormboyz.

There's also old fluff with Khornate Genestealer Cults.

The Rogue Trader (1st Ed 40K) days are over. A lot of concepts from those days are not coming back.

BYE

Thanks to the nature of WH40k canon, those days are never over. But yeah, unfortunately, a lot of concepts aren't coming back.

I always get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever someone uses the 'The old world is gone' argument regarding the fluff. This game has been going so long and had so many iterations that its only natural some people will prefer certain periods of the fluff to others, especially those of us that have been playing since the early days. I wonder if the people who say such things have any idea how arrogant is appears when they say 'That thing you loved and made you support this game for over 20 years, well its gone now' just for the sake of 'being right' on the internet. Combine that with GWs frankly dubious consistency when it comes to 'canon', their insistence of retconning rather than progressing the world, and the fact that the original creator doesn't even work for the company any more, you'll see its all a very weak argument to just say 'GW changed it'

This game and its universe belong to the fans, not the company regardless of what GW tries to tell us. The main joy of an RPG setting (or any fantasy universe) is that for the duration of this game we can create the world using our own vision and interpretation of over 20 years of in game lore. Whoever sits in the GM chair gets that prerogative in my mind, and after him the players. Each individual campaign is a story that belongs to the group of you. NO ONE has the right to tell you the way you interpret the universe is wrong.

I always get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever someone uses the 'The old world is gone' argument regarding the fluff. This game has been going so long and had so many iterations that its only natural some people will prefer certain periods of the fluff to others, especially those of us that have been playing since the early days. I wonder if the people who say such things have any idea how arrogant is appears when they say 'That thing you loved and made you support this game for over 20 years, well its gone now' just for the sake of 'being right' on the internet. Combine that with GWs frankly dubious consistency when it comes to 'canon', their insistence of retconning rather than progressing the world, and the fact that the original creator doesn't even work for the company any more, you'll see its all a very weak argument to just say 'GW changed it'

This game and its universe belong to the fans, not the company regardless of what GW tries to tell us. The main joy of an RPG setting (or any fantasy universe) is that for the duration of this game we can create the world using our own vision and interpretation of over 20 years of in game lore. Whoever sits in the GM chair gets that prerogative in my mind, and after him the players. Each individual campaign is a story that belongs to the group of you. NO ONE has the right to tell you the way you interpret the universe is wrong.

Well said!

Back onto topic, I would really like to see some more content for Nurglite sorcerers & psykers. They are very shafted under the current rules, which makes me a very sad panda.

there is old fluff about khonite stormboyz.

There's also old fluff with Khornate Genestealer Cults.

The Rogue Trader (1st Ed 40K) days are over. A lot of concepts from those days are not coming back.

BYE

Thanks to the nature of WH40k canon, those days are never over. But yeah, unfortunately, a lot of concepts aren't coming back.

I always get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever someone uses the 'The old world is gone' argument regarding the fluff. This game has been going so long and had so many iterations that its only natural some people will prefer certain periods of the fluff to others, especially those of us that have been playing since the early days. I wonder if the people who say such things have any idea how arrogant is appears when they say 'That thing you loved and made you support this game for over 20 years, well its gone now' just for the sake of 'being right' on the internet. Combine that with GWs frankly dubious consistency when it comes to 'canon', their insistence of retconning rather than progressing the world, and the fact that the original creator doesn't even work for the company any more, you'll see its all a very weak argument to just say 'GW changed it'

This game and its universe belong to the fans, not the company regardless of what GW tries to tell us. The main joy of an RPG setting (or any fantasy universe) is that for the duration of this game we can create the world using our own vision and interpretation of over 20 years of in game lore. Whoever sits in the GM chair gets that prerogative in my mind, and after him the players. Each individual campaign is a story that belongs to the group of you. NO ONE has the right to tell you the way you interpret the universe is wrong.

Yes, gamers can pick and choose elements from any generation of 40K, but I think H.B.M.C. 's point is that FFG is limited by their liscensing agreement with GW to adapting the current iteration of the 40Kverse. In other words, if'n ya want Squats, yer gonna have to house-rule 'em yerself, 'cause FFG ain't gonna do it for ya.

Back onto topic, I would really like to see some more content for Nurglite sorcerers & psykers. They are very shafted under the current rules, which makes me a very sad panda.

Yeah. I'd like to see rules included for more rituals, particularly more subtle and/or insideous ones. There's a magic item in Tome of Corruption for WHFRP that I forget the name of, it basically cures any disease you have but secretly give corruption points with each use and is highly addictive. Things like that would be great, especially for cross platform games.

Yes, gamers can pick and choose elements from any generation of 40K, but I think H.B.M.C. 's point is that FFG is limited by their liscensing agreement with GW to adapting the current iteration of the 40Kverse. In other words, if'n ya want Squats, yer gonna have to house-rule 'em yerself, 'cause FFG ain't gonna do it for ya.

Well, the squats are a very specific example because they have actually declared to be extinct, rather than just removed. However I'd say it very much depends on how the Demiurg look if we ever get to see them outside of their ships, and until either GW or FFG shows something completely to the contrary most people are well within their rights to treat the Demiurg as the squats. Personally I love the idea that the Demiurg are a Quarian type migrant fleet that escaped the destruction of Golgotha and sought saftey within the Tau Empire.

But in more generalised examples like Khornate Orks. You have rules for Orks in RT, Creatures Anathema and Enemies of the Imperium, you have a wealth of Khornate goodies in Tome of Blood. The tools are already there to create something like that, and you don't need to house rule anything. Its a simple matter of 'give X equipment to this profile'. If you have an idea like this and won't mix these things up until they've been "canonically sanctioned" by an IP lisence holder then you, your players and your imagination are the only ones suffering.

there is old fluff about khonite stormboyz.

There's also old fluff with Khornate Genestealer Cults.

The Rogue Trader (1st Ed 40K) days are over. A lot of concepts from those days are not coming back.

BYE

Thanks to the nature of WH40k canon, those days are never over. But yeah, unfortunately, a lot of concepts aren't coming back.

I always get a sick feeling in my stomach whenever someone uses the 'The old world is gone' argument regarding the fluff. This game has been going so long and had so many iterations that its only natural some people will prefer certain periods of the fluff to others, especially those of us that have been playing since the early days. I wonder if the people who say such things have any idea how arrogant is appears when they say 'That thing you loved and made you support this game for over 20 years, well its gone now' just for the sake of 'being right' on the internet. Combine that with GWs frankly dubious consistency when it comes to 'canon', their insistence of retconning rather than progressing the world, and the fact that the original creator doesn't even work for the company any more, you'll see its all a very weak argument to just say 'GW changed it'

This game and its universe belong to the fans, not the company regardless of what GW tries to tell us. The main joy of an RPG setting (or any fantasy universe) is that for the duration of this game we can create the world using our own vision and interpretation of over 20 years of in game lore. Whoever sits in the GM chair gets that prerogative in my mind, and after him the players. Each individual campaign is a story that belongs to the group of you. NO ONE has the right to tell you the way you interpret the universe is wrong.

Yes, gamers can pick and choose elements from any generation of 40K, but I think H.B.M.C. 's point is that FFG is limited by their liscensing agreement with GW to adapting the current iteration of the 40Kverse. In other words, if'n ya want Squats, yer gonna have to house-rule 'em yerself, 'cause FFG ain't gonna do it for ya.

Squats were mentioned in the 6th Edition Rulebook, less than 2 years ago.

Sooooo..

But...

Squats were mentioned in the 6th Edition Rulebook, less than 2 years ago.

Sooooo..

That was just an 'Easter Egg': an in-joke to long-time fans. It doesn't mean that FFG has free reign to include Squats (or, more on topic, any other long-discontinued element) in WK40KRP ...

But...

Squats were mentioned in the 6th Edition Rulebook, less than 2 years ago.

Sooooo..

That was just an 'Easter Egg': an in-joke to long-time fans. It doesn't mean that FFG has free reign to include Squats (or, more on topic, any other long-discontinued element) in WK40KRP ...

You mean like how the ordo Chronos totally hasn't appeared in numerous FFG works? Or how there's no rules for Enslavers in any of the books.

Oh wait...

No, to be fair you're right here, they don't have free reign to include ANYTHING really. From what I understand whatever they include is heavily monitored by the GW IP commission. However as I pointed out the squats are a tenuous example because they weren't actually retconned. It was a very rare example of GW progressing the story via the Tyranid attack that destroyed Golgotha.

AND even that claim was actually just a throwaway line from a studio exec that got tired of people asking about them. Nevertheless it has been fully absorbed as 'canon'. You'll find it hard to find people that say 'squats never officially existed according to current canon'..

But...

Squats were mentioned in the 6th Edition Rulebook, less than 2 years ago.

Sooooo..

That was just an 'Easter Egg': an in-joke to long-time fans. It doesn't mean that FFG has free reign to include Squats (or, more on topic, any other long-discontinued element) in WK40KRP ...

My point was that you were wrong in your previous statement.

If it was as simple as you made it out to be, Squats would definitely be on the table. Unfortunately, they're not. More likely than not, I expect that the contract requires them to send material for screening, rather than clearly defining everything or having large blanket bans on certain topics (although it no doubt includes some large blanket bans on certain things, such as overt satanic worship or sexual abuse or whatever else GW would perceive as a clear problem).

Each individual campaign is a story that belongs to the group of you. NO ONE has the right to tell you the way you interpret the universe is wrong.

Except that things have changed, and there are old things that aren't part of the fluff any more.

Take, for example, the Ultramarines. Originally they were a successor Chapter created to replace the original ones that had fallen to Chaos, and their Chief Librarian was a half-human/half-Eldar.

These things, like lots of other things, are not part of the fluff any more.

BYE

Each individual campaign is a story that belongs to the group of you. NO ONE has the right to tell you the way you interpret the universe is wrong.

Except that things have changed, and there are old things that aren't part of the fluff any more.

Take, for example, the Ultramarines. Originally they were a successor Chapter created to replace the original ones that had fallen to Chaos, and their Chief Librarian was a half-human/half-Eldar.

These things, like lots of other things, are not part of the fluff any more.

BYE

I dunno, I think a campaign based around looking into that discrepancy in Imperial records would be pretty cool. This is the difference, I see opportunity. You feel constrained by what someone else tells you is ok in our fictional universe. That's genuinely funny to me, no offence.

Things do change, they also get reintroduced all the time. For Example: Space Marine Jetbikes; Imperial Robots; Zoats; Conversion Beamers; Hand Flamers; Beastmen in 40k; Beastmen serving in the Imperial guard; the ambiguity concearning the battle of Caliban; The nature of the Emperor; Snotlings; Shokk attack guns; Hive Fleet Behemoth; Necron's free will; Eldar Corsairs; Anti Plant Grenades; Rad Grenades; VORTEX grenades; Displacer fields; The Blood Angels being vampires; Shuriken Capatults being Eldar technology; any agreement on the height of Titans; the height of space marines; The Dark Angels being native american themed; The Old Ones; The Hrud; The Stability of Plasma weaponry.

GW can't make up its mind on any of these things, how they work or whether they even exist. When you say something isn't part of the fluff any more, I would ask 'who removed it?'. You are aware people still play older editions of the game, right? It would be more accurate to say "(X) is not considered to be part of the fluff for 6th edition". Who knows when something you thought was dead will reappear?

If you really are a freelance writer for this company (although I may have misread that) your attitude towards this is certainly not giving me faith in the design team.

If you really are a freelance writer for this company (although I may have misread that) your attitude towards this is certainly not giving me faith in the design team.

No need to get dramatic.

BYE

No need to be dismissive.

Its not dramatic at all. I'm just telling you directly I find this attitutude disheartening.

Cail raises good points though, no need to put limits on imagination. There's plenty of things other people include in their games that I wouldn't interpret that way in mine and vice versa.

I don't care though and I won't tell them they are wrong as they are as correct as I am, as long as the people playing their games enjoy them and the people playing my games enjoy them it's irrelevant.

You would do better to say we won't be following that particular fluff for the official line as opposed to it's dead and doesn't exist anymore so just forget about it already because you are wrong.

Some of the most exciting games I have played have been where the GM has broken canon or else re-interpreted it in new ways.

There is absolutely nothing that says you cant have Squats in your games... Since there is no "official" date set for the start of BC as far as i've gleaned unlike DW and RT for example(both set around 817M41), and the 'Nids probably didnt nom the space dwarves until say between 730-810M41.

And then you have the effects of the Warp as well, unintentional time travel is just another risk of space travel in 40k. Or a badass daemon does some magicky thingy which sends your chars back in time, or you find some archeotech stuff which does the same.

Or you gank ol' Empy and he is instantly reborn into his old kickass space nazi self, and after thanking you for finally freeing him from that **** Golden Throne he then proceeds to lay the beatdown of the ages on your sorry behinds.

Even the games with "official" dates can be set in any time period with minimal tweaking. I'd consider those dates more guidelines than actual rules

There is absolutely nothing that says you cant have Squats in your games...

Of course that's true- gamers can include anything they want in their individual games. My point was that FFG is contractually obligated to stay more-or-less true to the current iteration of the 40Kverse, so if you want to include anything that falls outside those parameters, you will have to house-rule it. Asking FFG to present official rules for formally discontinued elements is a waste of time.

That's also the point I'm making. People can do whatever they want, but there are things in 40K that are immutable. Not everything is open to debate or interpretation. Some things just either do or do not exist, even if they once did.

BYE

Again, its more accurate to say "These things do not exist within the current edition of 40k". If I choose to play 2nd edition 40k (or first edition epic) on the table top, I have rules for squats and can use them. I can even convert those profiles to the 40RPG line with minimal effort.

The question falls down to who you think can define what is canonical. Personally, I feel that given the current design team has nothing to do with the original creator I am well within my rights to say "That idea sucks, I'm not including it". The funny thing is that some of the fluff writers have openly admitted to feeling exactly the same about other fluff writers works, so yes, everything is up for interpretation. GW have proved that with their constant inconsistency and retconning (I would almost call it a dedication to being inconsistent at this stage).

Currently everything we see being released as new for 40k would fall into 'expanded universe' by any other series definition, given its not being created by the original writer or design team.

Back to the original topic, I can't see why FFG couldn't include rules for the effects of Chaos powers on alien races. It's pretty universally acknowledged in every edition of the game that Chaos doesn't just affect humans.

Each individual campaign is a story that belongs to the group of you. NO ONE has the right to tell you the way you interpret the universe is wrong.

Except that things have changed, and there are old things that aren't part of the fluff any more.

Take, for example, the Ultramarines. Originally they were a successor Chapter created to replace the original ones that had fallen to Chaos, and their Chief Librarian was a half-human/half-Eldar.

These things, like lots of other things, are not part of the fluff any more.

BYE

Except that's not true; it's part of the fluff forever, for better or worse. GW has made it clear several times that all sources are equally valid, and if we go by traditional canon rules, it is canon until superseded by newer sources.

Who's the current Chief Librarian of the Ultramarines?

That's also the point I'm making. People can do whatever they want, but there are things in 40K that are immutable. Not everything is open to debate or interpretation. Some things just either do or do not exist, even if they once did.

BYE

Exactly.

Wrong.

Regarding the argument of canon validity, I feel like I should point out that in the FFG published adventure "The Chaos Commandment" a group of acolytes go through a stroll IN THE WARP with absolutely zero protective gear. So clearly not everything they publish fits with other sources, seeing as that should be instant death for anyone who tries it according to almost everything else published on the subject ever.

Honestly though, I would love more detail on aliens in BC. I want to hire Kroot mercs and have Hrud spies. I want a Dark Eldar beastmaster with a group of rare and exotic carnivores I can feed people who defy me to. The rules for alien allies are limited because loyalists should not be having any contact with aliens. BC is clearly the place to include them

Regarding the argument of canon validity, I feel like I should point out that in the FFG published adventure "The Chaos Commandment" a group of acolytes go through a stroll IN THE WARP with absolutely zero protective gear. So clearly not everything they publish fits with other sources, seeing as that should be instant death for anyone who tries it according to almost everything else published on the subject ever.

Honestly though, I would love more detail on aliens in BC. I want to hire Kroot mercs and have Hrud spies. I want a Dark Eldar beastmaster with a group of rare and exotic carnivores I can feed people who defy me to. The rules for alien allies are limited because loyalists should not be having any contact with aliens. BC is clearly the place to include them

Yes, I'd love to see some non-Chaos heresy all over Black Crusade. I realize that it's chaos-based, but Chaos doesn't limit itself to humans. Why should we or the books?