I think this talent really needs a prerequisite in the shape of Nerves of steel, Insanely faithful or similar.

Otherwise it is too easy to ignore fear and pinning from early on.

Very much agreed!

Readily accessible Talents that render PCs immune to fundamental game mechanics is just silly.

Sound familiar? (Hint: Quick Draw.)

Much worse than quick draw I think.

While Quick draw is nice to have, Adamantium faith gives you an edge in situations where others eaisly despair.

Welcome to exception-based design.

I think this talent really needs a prerequisite in the shape of Nerves of steel, Insanely faithful or similar.

Otherwise it is too easy to ignore fear and pinning from early on.

For that, I'd expect several prerequisite s .

Adamantium Faith doesn't "just" render you immune to some offhand effects or a parenthesis of the system, it renders one completely immune to key aspects of it, such as the entire Fear mechanic, which ties heavily into Insanity and so forth.

What's arguably even worse, is that it also renders some other, technically unrelated, Talents worthless. Such as Jaded, which makes you immune to mundane horrors. Why would anyone ever take Jaded, when you can take Adamantium Faith? Sure, it's cheaper, but what's a couple of extra experience points to render you immune to the primary cause of Fear checks to begin with?

It should have a whole slew of prereqs., at the very least both Jaded (Immune to mundane horrors) and Nerves of Steel (reroll pinning tests).

Preferably, though, I would just like to see it gone. Flat-out immunity to pinning and fear tests is just out of this world.

And comparing it to Quick-Draw is unfair. Quick-Draw saves you a Half-Action per combat scenario (arguably more if you are kitted out and prefer to throw your guns rather than reload) - and I would like to see changes to Quick-Draw too. Adamantium Faith, however, makes you immune to situations where other people's heads might literally explode.

ANd not only fear...also pinning IIRC...

Somewhat unsurprisingly, the 40k tabletop game also has a similar problem when it comes to morale and fear. Many large creatures have a rule called Fear that basically makes enemies less capable in melee, but many armies are loaded with Fearless troops or Space Marines (who have a rule called And They Shall Know No Fear, basically a less powerful version of Fearless) who can ignore this rule completely. The troops who are actually affected by Fear (Tau, Imperial Guard, tiny units of Orks, etc) would just roll over and die in close combat even without Fear. It makes me wonder why Fear is even in the game rules.

IMO, Infinity is a tabletop game that handles fear much better. In Infinity, even the most hardened veterans or fanatical zealots are affected by fear and morale checks. The only troops who are truly fearless are remote presence units (it's easy to feel fearless when you are controlling a giant death robot while sitting at a desk miles away from the combat zone) and troops with serious mental issues who are literally incapable of understanding the concept of fear (kinda like 40k Khorne Beserkers ).

I think Adamantium Faith would be much more reasonable if it simply allowed rerolls on all Fear and Pinning tests. This would still be an extremely powerful and desirable talent, but it wouldn't totally invalidate a whole segment of the rules. After all, even the most devoted priest of the Emperor may have somewhat less dedication when staring down a Bloodthirster in melee combat

Maybe AF could also let you spend a Fate Point to automatically pass a critical Fear/Pinning check -- when the character is sorely tested, his faith can carry him through situations that might normally shatter his mind.

I completely agree, check out my post in the game mechanics forum, made some time ago:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/94666-adamantium-faith/

Basically I think that pinning and fear should be separated, and there should be no such thing as immune to fear. Instead it should be a series of talents that reduce the fear level received, a little like those two talents obtainable from the adventures: Haarlock series and the Apostasy Gambit.

Put one more vote on this thread.

Only undead, seriously tainted Khorne berserkers and their ilk should be so thoroughly immune to Fear.

Put one more vote on this thread.

Only undead, seriously tainted Khorne berserkers and their ilk should be so thoroughly immune to Fear.

add space marine veterans

Put one more vote on this thread.

Only undead, seriously tainted Khorne berserkers and their ilk should be so thoroughly immune to Fear.

add space marine veterans

Fair enough.

Indeed it would be very strange to see an Ultramarine 1st Company Captain running away from a Lictor.

Certainly funny, but strange nevertheless.

SPace Marines should be able to be victims of fear, but they should get a missive bonus against it.

But Veterans onwards (incl. Grey Knights) should be fearless.

Space Marine veterans and Grey Knights may be immune to Fear, but a human character in Dark Heresy should not be able to ignore Fear without some heavy talent investments. The Fear reduction talents suggested by Alox seem much more reasonable than total Fear immunity and make the system more interesting -- a character with Fearless (2) who ignores 2 levels of Fear would not be bothered by minor daemons but would certainly be afraid of a Bloodthirster. I would personally like to see AF changed to my proposed version (re-roll Fear and Pinning checks, spend Fate to auto-pass such a check) with a prerequisite such as Nerves of Steel/Insanely Faithful.

Maybe it would make sense to make it simply replace the immune to fear bit, with something akin to "Treat the character's insanity as if it were 20 higher when checking for fear effects", so it's less powerful at early levels, but still a veteran with faith on their side isn't going to flinch.

Yes, a good bonus against fear would be preferred to total immunity.

I agree. Nerves of steel is vital against pinning

Put one more vote on this thread.

Only undead, seriously tainted Khorne berserkers and their ilk should be so thoroughly immune to Fear.

add space marine veterans

No.

Huge bonus, sure. Total immunity, no.

Update 5 is here, and Adamantium Faith has been revised! Personally I like the spirit of the change, but it is worded a little unconventionally.

From what it looks like it only works when you fail and it reduces the Degrees of Failure by your Willpower Bonus up to the point that you count as actually having succeed with a single Degree of Success (if your Willpower is high enough and your failure was not an epic one).

It could be worded a little better but my word-fu is insufficient for the job.

I also think this is a good solution !