I'd prefer the drawbacks of those armors to be social.

Seriously, I never played D&D, but having Agility limits due to armour is logical from a realism point of view as well as mechanistically needed for the above mentioned reasons.

Either a cap, or a general penalty.

Like -5 Ag for wearing Guard Flak.

I'd prefer the drawbacks of those armors to be social.

Yeah, that must be the reason why Temple Assassins do not run around in heavy carapace. Because of the social drawback...

Seriously, I never played D&D, but having Agility limits due to armour is logical from a realism point of view as well as mechanistically needed for the above mentioned reasons.

If you had played D&D you'd have a broad exposure to antiquated, poorly thought out rules. One of which was the armor check penalty (Ag cap, roughly. But worse).

Ag caps are a kludgy, boring way to differentiate armor. Rather than punishing players, differentiation should be done by making different kinds of armor different . Give them different abilities, modifications, utility, and so on.

But in the absence for special rules for each part of armour (which on the other side would be rather complex, interesting, but complex), Ag caps are btter than no Ag caps to differ armour other than by their protection rating (where the only rule is: take the best).

Bringing armour traits (like weapon traits) into game would indeed be interesting though. But the beta is probably to much proceeded to integrate such a thing now...

The reason the last assassin in my DH1 round wore that Hardened Bdoy Glove was because he bought the upgrade with the -20 penalty to spot him with IR, auspexes and the like. You usually don't get that bonus with a Flak Armour or Carapace.

Since he did not roll a 20 for Agility and neither took a background for more Agility his max was under 60 which meant he had to take every bonus he could get.

Add a set of Stummers and he was hard to hear and hard to spot. How very assassine.

The less said about his social capability the better.

That upgrade could be put on any armor or just use the cloak that does the same.

One thing they could do is have the better qualities increase the ag caps and bad qualities decrease the caps. Also, an upgrade could be added that increases the cap.

[...]

Bringing armour traits (like weapon traits) into game would indeed be interesting though. But the beta is probably to much proceeded to integrate such a thing now...

This. I've been wanting Special Qualities for Armour since Dark Heresy. I think it would be a much better way to differentiate between armours than dividing it into the four or five major groups it is now, where the actual groups doesn't matter (the only one with a group-wide effect is Flak, I believe, and that's only a bonus against X-damage.)

And instead of flat Agi or AB caps, might I suggest that this be turned into a Special Quality, such as Cumbersome (#), where # signifies the increased difficulty level of a taken Agility Test?

The basics assumptions would be that Mesh armour would have no penalty at all, while Flak would have 0-1, Carapace would have 2-4, and Power Armour would almost invariably have 6.

In relation to this, it might be suitable to have a non-standard Special Quality on the other end - let's call it Lightweight - for specific things such as Slip Suits (Lightweight (6)), Synskin (Lightweight (3)) or Armoured Bodyglove (Lightweight (1)).

Lightweight is probably a terrible name, but I'm just brainstorming here.

I agree that it would be elegant (and flexible for future expansions) to use armour traits for Ag caps:

Some traits I'd use:

> Uneasy: caps the agility to 60

> Restricting: caps the agility to 50

> Cumbersome: caps the agility to 40

> Heavy: caps the agility to 30

> Bulky: caps the agility to 20

> Impressive (area, e.g. military or nobility): +10 on social tests (CHarm, Command, Intimidate)

> Fire-proof: +20 for test to avoid getting on fire; +2 armour points against flamer and melta damage

> Shock-resistant: +20 against the Shocking weapon trait and similar effects

> Concealing (area, e.g. jungle): +20 on stelath tests in the correct environment

> Dreadful (X): gives Fear (X) trait for the wearer

> Specialized (damage type): gets +2 armour points against weapons with a certain damage type (rending, explosive, energy...)

> Heretical (faction): this kind of armour might be seen as heretical with some factions...

> collateral-proof: +1AP if not the direct target of the attack (as with blast weapons)

> discrete: can be hidden easily

> limited perception: -10 penalty on per-tests

[...]

Bringing armour traits (like weapon traits) into game would indeed be interesting though. But the beta is probably to much proceeded to integrate such a thing now...

This. I've been wanting Special Qualities for Armour since Dark Heresy. I think it would be a much better way to differentiate between armours than dividing it into the four or five major groups it is now, where the actual groups doesn't matter (the only one with a group-wide effect is Flak, I believe, and that's only a bonus against X-damage.)

And instead of flat Agi or AB caps, might I suggest that this be turned into a Special Quality, such as Cumbersome (#), where # signifies the increased difficulty level of a taken Agility Test?

The basics assumptions would be that Mesh armour would have no penalty at all, while Flak would have 0-1, Carapace would have 2-4, and Power Armour would almost invariably have 6.

In relation to this, it might be suitable to have a non-standard Special Quality on the other end - let's call it Lightweight - for specific things such as Slip Suits (Lightweight (6)), Synskin (Lightweight (3)) or Armoured Bodyglove (Lightweight (1)).

Lightweight is probably a terrible name, but I'm just brainstorming here.

A proposal: why dont we 2 work out a proposal with the current armour + some suggestions for their traits (like the ones just mentioned), and send them via mail to the feedback adress ?

As a start:

Basic Armour:

Heavy Leathers (AP1): Impressive (Underhive), discrete

Imperial Robes (AP1): Impressive (Administratum), discrete

Armoured Bodyglove (AP2): concealing (chose an area), discrete

Chainmail Suit (AP3): Heavy, Specialized ®, but reduce AP to 2

Feral World Plate (AP5): Bulky, Specialized ®, but reduce AP to 4

Xenos Hide Vest (AP6): Heretical (puritans)

Mesh Armour:

Mesh Vest (AP4): Heretical (puritans), Specialized (I), but reduce AP to 3, discrete

Mesh Cloak (AP4): Heretical (puritans), Specialized (I), but reduce AP to 3

Flak Armour (all get collateral-proof):

Flak Helmet (AP2)

Flak Gauntlets (AP2)

Light Flak Coat (AP2)

Flak Vest (AP3): Uneasy, discrete

Flak Cloak (AP3): Uneasy

Flak Coat (AP3): Uneasy

Imperial Guard Flak Armour (AP4): Restricting

Carapace Armour:

Carapace Helm (AP4): limited perception

Carapace Gauntletts (AP5): restricting

Carapace Greaves (AP5): restricting

Enforcer Light Carapace (AP5): Cumbersome

Carapace Chestplate (AP6): Cumbersome

Storm Trooper Carapace (AP6): Cumbersome

I think it should be a limit on agi (not just AB), and it could be a little more restrictive than it currently is.

I think it should be a limit on agi (not just AB), and it could be a little more restrictive than it currently is.

This si why I prefer a penalty rather than a cap.

A penalty would hit everyone...not sure I like that.

I'd prefer it to show a limit on general agility (due to the material and how it is "tailored").