Hello guys,

A lot of us seem to like the new ag caps.

But is it the best to cap at AB, or would capping Agility in general not be better / more realistic.

Furthermore, I think the capping is not strict enough at all. The values it caps on are set very high (usually this will not be something to consider at all).

An "average" acolyte will have between agility 35 and 50, one that specializes in it will mybe reach around 60 or even 65.

So that should be the area, the caps should cap.

Only if a Guard Flak is capped at, lets say 50, it is something that is relevant to the game.

A light Enforcer Carapace could be capped at 45, a Stormtrooper one at 40.

And I checked it: the only way so far to get Unnatural Agility is 1 psychic power (Warp Speed). Thats not really a reason to set the caps that high.

And: should wearing a helmet have any penalty (perception) ?

But is it the best to cap at AB, or would capping Agility in general not be better / more realistic.

It would, but given how DoS are calculated and how the agility cap is mostly relevant for dodging, there's really no difference.

But is it the best to cap at AB, or would capping Agility in general not be better / more realistic.

It would, but given how DoS are calculated and how the agility cap is mostly relevant for dodging, there's really no difference.

Yes, thats something else that should be changed. DoS/DoF like in OW was better. But thats another topic.

But even then, it makes a difference if you have to do a skill test thats based on agility.

Yes, thats something else that should be changed. DoS/DoF like in OW was better. But thats another topic.

Not really. It's interlinked and both (appear to) come from the idea that double digit subtraction is hard, single digit subtraction is much easier. Which says some very sad things about their expected target audience really.

What does max Agility Bonus affect anyway? When is AB used?

In Beta1 (before one of the erratas) it affected RoA on some melee weapons?

What does it affect in Beta2?

Now, If its supposed to limit my Agility characteristic, then I have a question.

If I have 60 Agility and i'm wearing armour with Max Agility bonus of 5, do I treat my agility as 59? Or 50?

In its current form it doesn't seem to have the impact it should. (An why it was changed to max Ability, instead of AB, in beta1)

That new DoS/DoF is a rule I will ignore if it makes it into the final version.

I will calculate DoS/DoF as in OW. I feel like and idiot subtracting single digits while creating odd maths by doing so.

That rule change there creates more incompatibility to OW than anything else in the rules so far.

What does max Agility Bonus affect anyway? When is AB used?

In Beta1 (before one of the erratas) it affected RoA on some melee weapons?

What does it affect in Beta2?

Now, If its supposed to limit my Agility characteristic, then I have a question.

If I have 60 Agility and i'm wearing armour with Max Agility bonus of 5, do I treat my agility as 59? Or 50?

In its current form it doesn't seem to have the impact it should. (An why it was changed to max Ability, instead of AB, in beta1)

As it is RAW at the moment, it JUST limits the bonus.

As the bonus is used for initiative and movement, it does have an effect.

But for other things, like skill-tests based on Ag, it would have no penalty at all - which doesnt make sense.

So in your example, your Ag would still be 60, but your bonus would only be counted as 5. Odd.

Better would be a limit of 50. So everything over 50 is just counted as 50. Easy.

And that limit should be strict enough to make a difference for regular characters that have Agility values between 35 and 60 (a cap of 70 has no real effect on the game).

The AB cap does have a effect when you calculate DoS in skill and evading tests

If you have the Feudal world plate with a AB cap 2 and you have Dodge +10 and 45 Ag. You roll a 12 on the evading test, ( and we use the new DoS/DoF rule) you can get only +2 DoS from your AG characteristic and +1 for succeed.

But when you have the Heavy leather armour with a AB cap 8 you can have ( with the same roll) +4 DoS and +1 for succeed

No - the cap is only relevant for the DoS/DoF, if your value exceeds the cap.

So, a cap 8 is only ever relevant, if you have Agility 90+

Something that almost never occurs.

And this odd new DoS/DoF rule really needs to disappear - I will start ignoring its existance.

The current caps are...ridiculous.

First problem is they are just AG bonus oriented so only relevant for DoS/F. More sensibly to make them flat AG score so as to actually be a more meaningful limit.

Second problem is what the limits actually are...Holy crapsticks a max agility of 50 for wearing FULL Guard Flak? Given that ~30 is human average and the average in-setting human is the most likely to be wearing such armour (and thus be encumbered by it) would it not make sense to have a penalty that would affect them? Guard flak is...very powerful as it is. Sure not against your high end stuff, but what is. But against the majority of mundane foes, guard flak will do just fine. This needs lowered to probably around the 35ish mark I'd say. Designed to allow maximum flexibility to the regular average joe, of which the Imperium has billions. Not necessarily ideal for elite Inquisitorial Agents.

The carapace values are simply a joke. Watch me cartwheel utterly unimpeded in Storm Trooper carapace! Weeee!

Honestly, I'd not suggest any Max Ag over 45ish (what with dodge being a skill to +30 and all). Anything beyond that's not really worth having. Sure it might be worth putting in just for those munchkins who enjoy..well..being munchkins (since it appears GM's here are incapable to saying No ) but the current values whilst a good start, fall short of being actually useful.

The carapace values are simply a joke. Watch me cartwheel utterly unimpeded in Storm Trooper carapace! Weeee!

You're right dude, that's totally impossible...

Ag caps on armor are not a game element I agree with. It's an old D&Dism I think should be left behind.

Yeah, I definitely agree that caps are a bit of a lame mechanic. But there really needs to be some reason for stuff like bodygloves to be appealing mechanically.

Just try to do that yourself ;D

Yeah, I definitely agree that caps are a bit of a lame mechanic. But there really needs to be some reason for stuff like bodygloves to be appealing mechanically.

And a reason to NOT wear Light Enforcer carapace+ for the entire group all the time.

Just try to do that yourself ;D

I'd like to think a trained Inquisitorial acolyte is a bit more adept at dealing with armour encumbrance than a random dude dicking around on youtube.

I'd prefer the drawbacks of those armors to be social. In normal, everyday life, people don't walk around in armor toting weapons everywhere. I'd like to see an emphasis on subtlety in this sense and leave the military-grade arms and armor for when the party knows some ****'s about to go down. That'd be the upside of a bodyglove - it fits under your clothing.

I totally agree there. In terms of hard mechanics though, it'd be nice if there was at least something. It could be worth looking to Edge of the Empire's armour for inspiration. In EotE there's a whole host of armour modifications just like you'd have weapon mods, and each individual armour set has a max cap on the amount of modifications it can support. Something like that could make armour choice a bit more interesting.

Yeah, I definitely agree that caps are a bit of a lame mechanic. But there really needs to be some reason for stuff like bodygloves to be appealing mechanically.

Why?

It can be concealed easily and worn under clothes IIRC. No social penalties - what more do you want?

Because I'd rather there be more interesting choices when it comes to combat armour other than 'get the highest defence value possible'.

Straight upgrades are boring. I prefer to force more interesting choices on players.

I also like the tactical aspect it has on armour choice.

Do I take the lighter armour that protects me with 3, or do I take the armour that protects with 5, but limits my agility to 40 instead of my usual 51.

Currently the decision is easy. Take the armour with most armour points - always.

I agree with a max agility for armors and not max bonus. In the original Dark Heresy, I has an assassin with 65 ag and +20 dodge and step aside, so I could avoid most anything, but since I had only a bodysuit and average toughness getting hit would do a lot of damage. I realized later that if I used carapace armor, I could have avoided almost all damage and if I got hit ignored most of the damage.

I agree with a max agility for armors and not max bonus. In the original Dark Heresy, I has an assassin with 65 ag and +20 dodge and step aside, so I could avoid most anything, but since I had only a bodysuit and average toughness getting hit would do a lot of damage. I realized later that if I used carapace armor, I could have avoided almost all damage and if I got hit ignored most of the damage.

Thats exactly the situation that this caps should avoid. But therefore they need to be low enough to make a difference.

I agree with cps an Tom Cruise.

It is a rather outdated and a leftover from D&D.

But since most armour is plainly visible it is not hard for your enemies to

a) spot you

b) avoid you

c) design the necessary counter meassures.

d) kill you and

e) call it a day.

Usually in that order.

Flak armour and/or Light Carapace in the Middle/Underhive?

Careful, the Arbites/Enforcers/Guard are doing a patrol. Hide the ill ... good stuff! Send word further down/up and set up more lookouts. Let them run around for hours/days without finding what they are looking for. Even innocent people run away/avoid you since you look like trouble.

And the criminals could see you as competition/a threat and decide to do something against you. Traps, ambushes, molotov cocktails, industrial waste and acids ... lots of nasty stuff to use against such big targets.

And sneaking in armour is a matter of skill and ability. Hell, on a few LARPs even I managed to sneak up on other players while wearing chainmail. You have to know how to wear it properly and move accordingly. Sloppy adjustment of armour is usually what makes it go 'clank' in the first place.

Most of the ways to avoid being seen rely on your agility. There is no stealth penalties from using armor until power armor without ag caps. It's also a balance so high agility and dodge cannot also have great damage reduction from armor.

Most of the ways to avoid being seen rely on your agility. There is no stealth penalties from using armor until power armor without ag caps. It's also a balance so high agility and dodge cannot also have great damage reduction from armor.

If you cap agility, you also cap stealth use.