I know loads of people that want to play an Eldar game (I've had atleast 5 players lose interest in the game at a local hobby center when they found out they couldn't play one). For the most part I support not making Alien races playable. Aliens should think like aliens, not humans. An Eldar isn't just a human with pointy ears, their entire emotional drive and perspective on the galaxy is different. Its what makes them scary, and interesting.

I know its an unrealistic pipe dream. I think SoB could do with a single book just for them, done in the style of a corebook (if we cant got to the 'single book, many splat books' approach). I totally agree there would be little call or demand for supplements. Its just I've been reading blood of Martyrs recently and I cant stop thinking how cool a campaign based on a group of sisters on some crusade themed adventure could be.

Thank you all for your interesting points.

But for the player in my group I have to work out a playable solution for a Battle Sister.

I like the most of your ideas and I think I will do it with Elite Advances. Did I told you that I like those Elite Advances.

Perhaps the general build for a Sororitas would be a "non-combat" equivalent sister, one that is equipped with basic combat training and the appropriate knowledge based skills. The elite advance would be Battle Sister in which they would gain access to more combat based skills such as bolter training and jump pack training in the case of Seraphim.

I would actually be in favor of adding Orders Dialogous, Hospitaller, and Famulous as an elite advance to the Core Rulebook and just add Orders Militant to a supplement.

For the most part I support not making Alien races playable. Aliens should think like aliens, not humans. An Eldar isn't just a human with pointy ears, their entire emotional drive and perspective on the galaxy is different. Its what makes them scary, and interesting.

Dark Eldar, Kroot, Orcs are already playable in Rogue Trader. Human players can roleplay anything they like.

That would be a GM/Player determination of whether they want to run a game with those characters, not necessarily FFG giving them the option or not.

Perhaps the only current trouble is that there isn't as much source material to set something like an Eldar-only campaign, so the players would have less of a fluff/mechanics aid if they wanted to do that.

I'm aware they are playable. I dont agree its a good decision (except orks, which I would love to play an all ork crew for).

My sentiment on this has been echoed by most of the forgeworld writers, its why the FW books are usually written from the imperiums perspective. Matt Kincade wrote a very interesting article on it.

I'm aware they are playable. I dont agree its a good decision (except orks, which I would love to play an all ork crew for).

My sentiment on this has been echoed by most of the forgeworld writers, its why the FW books are usually written from the imperiums perspective. Matt Kincade wrote a very interesting article on it.

Books are written from the Imperium's perspective because that's the most popular faction, as human factions tend to be to other humans. (In addition to the other resonant elements, perhaps.)

It is certainly not for lack of capability in writing Eldar: A race invented by humans in the first place.

There are no actual aliens in 40k the fictional franchise. They're all various incarnations of human writing.

Most of who you roleplay in 40k would be extremely alien to see into the thoughts of. A Death Cult assassin is not really a normal person.

And a Tzeentchian sorcerer? You're probably physically incapable of the chaos-warped leaps he makes.

But you are not your character, and all of 40k was written by humans-- it's entirely possible to roleplay or write from a 'fantastical' or 'alien' perspective, and such imaginings can be very enjoyable and inspiring for people.

Yeah I've never understood this "people can't roleplay as xenos, they're too alien" perspective.

If humans can't write xeno characters adequately, you'd better go fire about half the Black Library novelists. They're clearly doing it wrong!

Yeah I've never understood this "people can't roleplay as xenos, they're too alien" perspective.

If humans can't write xeno characters adequately, you'd better go fire about half the Black Library novelists. They're clearly doing it wrong!

Xenos (and daemons, etc.) were made by a human author trying to make something that seems non-human. 40k actually does a reasonable job of this. (Perhaps compared to stuff like Star Trek, at least.)

There is pretty much no reason another human roleplayer cannot do the same.

In fact, the GM is perhaps obliged to roleplay xenos and chaos NPCs in a campaign including them.

I'm aware they are playable. I dont agree its a good decision (except orks, which I would love to play an all ork crew for).

My sentiment on this has been echoed by most of the forgeworld writers, its why the FW books are usually written from the imperiums perspective. Matt Kincade wrote a very interesting article on it.

Books are written from the Imperium's perspective because that's the most popular faction, as human factions tend to be to other humans. (In addition to the other resonant elements, perhaps.)

Read the preface to IA 3/4, you're wrong. That is all. Kincade clearly states he is against writing from the Aliens perspective for the reasons I mentioned. Whether you agree with that is entirely your call, but thats not the reason some writers choose to write for the Imperium's P.O.V, and it has been said as such.

Read the preface to IA 3/4, you're wrong.

To be fair, this is just one writer (or one group of writers) expressing their personal opinion. Novels and Codices have been written about and incorporating the perspective of Xenos, so arguably it does not apply to others. If Forge World would not go by popularity but by species, how comes they have next to nothing for SoB, but only support the two most popular armies?

It's all the author's choice, really. From a contemporary perspective, the mind of an Eldar or Tau is no more alien than that of a Death Cultist or Battle Sister.

It's an interesting discussion, but could we go back to the original meaning of the thread,please.

Lautrer, I recommend creating a template for a standard Sister and make the Battle Sister an elite advance.

One issue there is the non-militant orders are still incredibly variable in what they do. I personally think the best way to do it is to make them ALL elite advances, with the Ministorum background as a prereq. The Battle Sister should definitely be the priciest of the lot (probably making them only available for games starting at higher XP values than standard), but they should probably all be Elite Advances.

One issue there is the non-militant orders are still incredibly variable in what they do.

They all have an adequate Role:

- Hospitalier - Chirurgeon

- Famulous - Hierophant

- Dialogus - Sage

- Pronatus - Seeker

- Militant - Warrior

What they need is a common Background that has their most basic stuff packed in: Pure Faith, Weapon Training (Bolt) and maybe the Willpower or Finesse Aptitude.

Turning them into Elite Advancements is a little bit silly IMHO, because nobody can join the Sororitas - they can only born into it. So it would only work if you made the Elite Advancement "starting characters only" but at that point it would be better off as a Background.

One issue there is the non-militant orders are still incredibly variable in what they do.

They all have an adequate Role:

- Hospitalier - Chirurgeon

- Famulous - Hierophant

- Dialogus - Sage

- Pronatus - Seeker

- Militant - Warrior

What they need is a common Background that has their most basic stuff packed in: Pure Faith, Weapon Training (Bolt) and maybe the Willpower or Finesse Aptitude.

Turning them into Elite Advancements is a little bit silly IMHO, because nobody can join the Sororitas - they can only born into it. So it would only work if you made the Elite Advancement "starting characters only" but at that point it would be better off as a Background.

I am inclined to agree completely, save one point:

Backgrounds are meant to be balanced with all other Backgrounds in mind, utilizing predominantly the basic rules to mold a character concept around the fluff. Or at least that's my interpretation.

Elite Advances would allow you to further assign various quirks, whether they be basic advances or fluff-based special abilities, traits, talents or even skills, at an experience cost. This would allow you to properly depict an Adepta Sororitas without unbalancing the system, while staying reasonably close to the fluff.

Just some food for thought.

I dunno. according to their descriptions:

Backgrounds represent these organisations and other groups that Acolytes come from, and just as home worlds represent the birth and development of an Acolyte, backgrounds represent the organisations that drove his training and indoctrinations. While home worlds establish a place of origin, backgrounds indicate an Acolyte’s previous life experience before an Inquisitor noticed the aptitudes and abilities he developed there, found them to be of use, and forever changed his life.

In the course of his lifetime, an Acolyte might evolve into someone his earlier self could not possibly imagine. Some changes radically alter a character, forever moving him onto a new path. These might be the result of unrevealed or manifested transformations, offering abilities no amount of training could produce. They can also come in the form of terrible new offices, granting him tremendous powers, but also burdens few mortals could comprehend. These life-altering changes are called elite advances, and characters blessed or cursed with one are never the same again.

I'm pretty sure that the Sororitas is closer tho the description of the Backgrounds. The only way I can see it as an Elite Advancement is if said Advancement is called Faithful and simply gives the Faith powers. It would be actually pretty nice as True Faith is not Sororitas-only. So a Sororitas character would be Ministorium Background + fitting Role + Faithful Elite Advancement.

Ah, you misunderstand. I was not talking about the fluff, but the crunch, behind Backgrounds.

Obviously, if you created Backgrounds based entirely on fluff, with no balancing in mind, there's no way a peasant from Proxima VII could compare to someone born on Holy Terra itself, and so on.

None of the Backgrounds have experience costs, and it would feel incredibly artificial to assign an experience cost to a background simply to keep a character in-line with it's compatriots. An Elite Advancement Package, however, is an entirely different thing, and could be used to essentially "tax" a character that would otherwise, by virtue of it's implicit training and nature, be comparatively more powerful.

Well, my example is the Tech-Priest who is actually pretty similar to a Sororitas (as far as origins go). The Tech-Priest is not an Elite Advancement option - it is represented by the Adeptus Mechanicus Background that gives the Mechaniucs Implants trait to the character. Even though by your logic it should be an Elite Advancement because that trait is nothing to sneeze at.

The assumption that Elite Advances can't/shouldn't form a part of the character's background is a bit silly when Untouchable is the main Elite Advance they're showing off; a trait you're born with.

The assumption that Elite Advances can't/shouldn't form a part of the character's background is a bit silly when Untouchable is the main Elite Advance they're showing off; a trait you're born with.

Actually, they specifically mention in the description of the Untouchable that it could be a dormant ability. So Simple Jack can wake up one morning to the terrible feeling that he is in fact an Untouchable, but Acolyte Mary can't do the same with the Sororitas.

Fair point. But still, I don't see the issue with Elite Advances that can only be taken at character creation. You could probably mimic it with XP taxed backgrounds, but I'd rather not introduce XP costs to backgrounds.

Fair point. But still, I don't see the issue with Elite Advances that can only be taken at character creation. You could probably mimic it with XP taxed backgrounds, but I'd rather not introduce XP costs to backgrounds.

Well, you don't have to. Its "roleplaying cost" is high enough already and the Pure Faith talent isn't that super-duper powerful to warrant an xp cost if you give it as a Background bonus.

The assumption that Elite Advances can't/shouldn't form a part of the character's background is a bit silly when Untouchable is the main Elite Advance they're showing off; a trait you're born with.

Actually, they specifically mention in the description of the Untouchable that it could be a dormant ability. So Simple Jack can wake up one morning to the terrible feeling that he is in fact an Untouchable, but Acolyte Mary can't do the same with the Sororitas.

That's an idiotic rationale on part of the writers, though. Suddenly waking up one day and realizing that you don't have a soul is one thing - having that soul and then lose it because apparently your soulless-ness was dormant during a large part of your life is just.. I don't know what to say.

Untouchable really should have a sticker on it saying that it can only be taken on creation - but there's too many issues with DH2 Untouchable vs. Fluff Untouchables to list.

I can't wait to see what rationale they'll think of next, to explain why Untouchables can get Psyniscience same as any other character.

Well, my example is the Tech-Priest who is actually pretty similar to a Sororitas (as far as origins go). The Tech-Priest is not an Elite Advancement option - it is represented by the Adeptus Mechanicus Background that gives the Mechaniucs Implants trait to the character. Even though by your logic it should be an Elite Advancement because that trait is nothing to sneeze at.

Hmm? I never said that Tech-Priests should be an Elite Advancement, nor did I imply that it should be. Do you feel that you cannot properly depict a Tech-Priest with the assigned Background without suggesting to make that Background more powerful than the average background?

Because if so, maybe it should be an Elite Advance. I'm not saying it should be, but it seems like you are saying it should be, based on my logic. In what way would you consider the Adeptus Mechanicus Background more powerful or less balanced than the other Backgrounds? Or is it just the Mechanicus Implants that are rubbing you the wrong way?