Whouldnt it be a good idea to merge the skills "dodge" and "parry" und "evade" again and give them the common aptitudes Defence & Perception (you can only defend against what you perceive early enough).

As you still use Ag when dodging with Evade and WS when parrying with Evade, AG & WS would still be important to it, but Ag would be a little bit nerfed.

Of course, also my recommendation to use Per for initiative instead of Ag, still stands

Of course, also my recommendation to use Per for initiative instead of Ag, still stands

You mean Combat Sense?

I would make Initiative a whole different attribute altogether, separate from any characteristic bonuses. Then you could buy Combat Finesse (your AB is your Initiative), Combat Senses (your PB is your Initiative) and Combat Formation (your IB is your Initiative).

Also, your change to the Evade Aptitudes would make the Perception Aptitude better and not Perception itself.

Good point...would only be an indirect effect as it pushed the aptitude...

Yes, a reaction attribute would be fine, but would bring too much chaos into the system as a whole.

It would be nice to see perception play a role when aiming with an accurate weapon. Maybe say 1d10+PB on 2 DoS and 2d10+PB on 4+ DoS.

As the accurate bonus damage cannot trigger RF anyway, why not make it a fixed value, which is directly related to Per-B ?

Like: +Per-B*2 damage per 2 DoS up to two times this bonus at 4 DoS

As the accurate bonus damage cannot trigger RF anyway, why not make it a fixed value, which is directly related to Per-B ?

Like: +Per-B*2 damage per 2 DoS up to two times this bonus at 4 DoS

Or Perception Bonus per DoS up to 4 DoS, to make it simple. :-)

In any case I am all for improving the usage of the perception stat where its possible.

Adding perception a combat characteristic just further dilutes combat out among even more skills and characteristics though. Perception strikes me as a characteristic that should be much more involved in narrative scenes, like investigation.
To "fix" it, we need new abilities or skills in those areas.

Besides, not every characteristic NEEDS to be equal. Perception is necessary definitely, but shouldn't have to stand equally to Fellowship or Agility.

Good idea !

I think it could be useful/fun to rank the characteristics. Agility and Toughness are the best, I allways try to keep them high, after them it's Willpower after that I don't know.

I also think WS and BS are quite good in general, as combat occurs in most games.

I think it could be useful/fun to rank the characteristics. Agility and Toughness are the best, I allways try to keep them high, after them it's Willpower after that I don't know.

My 2.0 DH rank for characteristics is:

- Agility

- Fellowship

- Willpower

- Intelligence / Perception (tied)

- Toughness

- Ballistic Skill / Weapon Skill (rank depends on your fighting style)

- Strength

You need Agility for survival, Fellowship to actually play the game, Willpower to resist the nasty stuff, Intelligence and Perception to play the game and actually feel useful, Toughness to resist physical harm, BS/WS to fight and Strength for... uh... melee damage I guess?

STrength should be more vital for carrying limits maybe...

Thing is, for better or worse, most groups ignore carrying limits. While that is ultimately their fault, it might be worth giving strength some alternate applications that people won't totally ignore.

My top stats are Willpower and Agility.
Agility because it's good, and because gotta go fast.
Willpower because I harbour this secret idea that it is the most important stat of all, and you should be able to substitute it for any other characteristic.
"Sure my legs and arms may be gone, but Iron WILL allows me to crawl across the room to the detonation switch!"
And then they actually gave that ability to a daemon in OW.

Perception has always been the dump stat. Never managed to build a legitimate character around it. Closest was a Slaaneshi musician, with maxed out perception and Fellowship. But even then, all I used perception for was playing songs and researching new music. Highly situational

Perception has always been the dump stat. Never managed to build a legitimate character around it. Closest was a Slaaneshi musician, with maxed out perception and Fellowship. But even then, all I used perception for was playing songs and researching new music. Highly situational

Perception governs Awareness (the most basic survival skill), Scrutiny (the no.1 counter-social skill), Survival (the compulsory Solo Mode skill) and Psyniscience (the anti-psyker skill). Really, as I can see it, the only way to waste Perception is to have another character who is good at it and hug him 24/7 . Otherwise, you will get ambushed/deceived on a daily basis and you have to keep your distance from wilderness and psykers.

My characters would be hopeless if they all took Perception as a dump stat, complete obliviousness is never a good thing in an investigation game.

As far as Strength goes, maybe there's not enough environmental encounters in the game? Climbing, swimming, pushing through marshlands, chasing after a heretic through a crowd, there's plenty of opportunities to use strength. Another way to use strength is have the acolytes ambushed while unarmed or get caught up in a bar brawl, something where using their weapons would be too conspicuous.

I really think it would make sense to put more weight on the carrying limits and maybe even base them totally on strength.

I know that Toughness also plays a vital role for it in general, but for the sake of balance, maybe strength as only relevant characteristic would make strength more important.

I am not talking about keeping record of minor weights, but a low strength could make it impossible to wear heavier armour or use heavy weapons.

As far as Strength goes, maybe there's not enough environmental encounters in the game? Climbing, swimming, pushing through marshlands, chasing after a heretic through a crowd, there's plenty of opportunities to use strength. Another way to use strength is have the acolytes ambushed while unarmed or get caught up in a bar brawl, something where using their weapons would be too conspicuous.

Athletics is always a better option for swimming/climbing/whatever. You can even use it to increase your pushing limit. For unarmed combat, Strength isn't really a big deal. Weapon Skill and Agility are much more important.

Perception has always been the dump tat. Never managed to build a legitimate character around it. Closest was a Slaaneshi musician, with maxed out perception and Fellowship. But even then, all I used perception for was playing songs and researching new music. Highly situational

I think Awareness (or it's equivalent) is the single skill I ask people to roll most often as a GM - in any game.

I think its very important to avoid ambushs.

To be surprised it very dangerous.

I think Awareness (or it's equivalent) is the single skill I ask people to roll most often as a GM - in any game.

True, but in most cases all players roll and as long as one succede they can just tell each other. Hence, awareness is not really driving perception that much. Doesn't mean its useless, just saying. :-)

I think Awareness (or it's equivalent) is the single skill I ask people to roll most often as a GM - in any game.

True, but in most cases all players roll and as long as one succede they can just tell each other. Hence, awareness is not really driving perception that much. Doesn't mean its useless, just saying. :-)

What, you never split up the party just for laughs?

Besides, I'm getting used to my OW group, where we're asked to do an awareness check, and we all report in how many degrees we failed by. Actually succeding is .. unusual.

I think Awareness (or it's equivalent) is the single skill I ask people to roll most often as a GM - in any game.

True, but in most cases all players roll and as long as one succede they can just tell each other. Hence, awareness is not really driving perception that much. Doesn't mean its useless, just saying. :-)

What, you never split up the party just for laughs?

Besides, I'm getting used to my OW group, where we're asked to do an awareness check, and we all report in how many degrees we failed by. Actually succeding is .. unusual.

So your group is not the type of group that buys awareness plus 20 but never puts a point in perception?

So your group is not the type of group that buys awareness plus 20 but never puts a point in perception?

Rolled stat. Regimental -3 to perception. My perception of 30 was the highest in the group at the start of game, so I bought awareness, as the only one.

I think some of the others have bought awareness and maybe even bought perception up by now, but far from sure.