With a bit of quick research. On average, a man that is 81.6 kg (180 lbs) should be able to lift about 50 kg (110 lbs) worth of weight overhead. Here is a rough chart to scale weight lifted versus strength:

S Max Lift

30 50 kg (110 lbs)

40 95 kg (210 lbs)

50 141 kg (310 lbs)

60 186 kg (410 lbs)

70 277 kg (610 lbs)

80 367 kg (810 lbs)

90 458 kg (1010 lbs)

Thats a good value to know...

Keep in mind though, that lifting overhead is not the same as carrying it over a longer time.

I think even I could somehow manage to lift 50kg over head somehow for a short time - but probably not longer than a few seconds. The maximum I could think about carrying over a longer period of time while still being able to do other things without getting totally exhausted, would be max. around 15-20kg. And thats rather optimistic. Maybe already 10-15kg are tough to take while doing other things than walking.

Imagine climbing over a wall in a hurry, sprinting to get closer to a fleeing heretic and bringing him down with a swift attack - all while carrying 30+ kg...NO WAY.

The moment I reach this guy (if I even manage to do so), he just needs to push this exhausted figure to the ground with has bare hands. I wont stand up again for a while.

That's where Toughness comes in. The higher the Toughness, the more endurance the character has.

I agree that both strength and toughness are relevant.

Just the current level of kg feels wrong.

It should either be handled abstract (like described before by Nimsim) or it should be lowered how much kg one can carry with a defined T+Str

Either way would be ok for me. But at the moment the numbers are odd.

I agree that both strength and toughness are relevant. Just the current level of kg feels wrong. It should either be handled abstract (like described before by Nimsim) or it should be lowered how much kg one can carry with a defined T+Str Either way would be ok for me. But at the moment the numbers are odd.

On this we are agreed.

My idea of the effects of Toughness on endurance on a forced march of 20+ miles in 8 hours. A normal march is estimated to be up to 20 miles. This includes packing 23 kg (50 lbs) of weight.

Narrative Time

T Extra Distance traveled after the first 32 km (20 miles) before fatigue sets in:

30 8 km (5 miles) - An average modern military forced march

40 16 km (10 miles) - An average Roman forced march

50 24 km (15 miles)

60 32 km (20 miles) - Historically, 80,000 POW's in 1945 traveled this distance (64 km or 40 miles)

Space Marines wearing (45 kg or 100 lb pack)

70 48 km (30 miles) - Getting well into Space Marine territory here

80 64 km (40 miles)

90 81 km (50 miles)

I would say for every 9 kg (20 lbs) of extra weight, the character acts as if one tier lower on the march.

Structured Movement Under Prolonged Physical Stress (with 23 kg or 50 lb pack)

Charge - 2 round / point of TB (3 rounds / point of TB after 70 Toughness)

Run - 1 round / point of TB (2 rounds / point of TB after 70 Toughness)

As per normal rules movement is 1 metre / round

Measured in Rounds

T Charge Run

30 6 3

40 8 4

50 10 5

60 12 6

Space Marines wearing (45 kg or 100 lb pack)

70 21 14

80 24 16

90 27 18

In my DH 1.0 campaign, I set the following limits for my characters:

• You can carry a number of Basic-sized weapons equal to Sb (Pistols and knives count as 0.5 Basic, Heavy weapons count as 2 or more in extreme cases)
• You can carry 3 spare magazines per ranged weapon in combat-accessible positions (more in the depths of your backpack) -- these slots may be divided among weapons as you see fit. For example, you could have 4 sniper mags and 2 autopistol mags.
• You can carry a number of grenades equal to Sb+2. Particularly large grenades such as melta bombs or demo charges count as 2 grenades.
• You can carry any reasonable amount of gear in your backpack (basically whatever the GM says is OK)

This system has enough depth to keep things interesting but requires little bookkeeping on the part of the players. I don't think FFG will put a system like this in a future RPG release but I would be ecstatic if they did

A lot of good ideas here.

I still think though it would be easiest for the developers to just shift the table by 1 step.

Means: "8" has 45kg instead of 56kg, "7" has 36kg and "6" has 27kg.

As most characters should have between 6 and 8, this would be carrying limits that are not too restricting, but still something to care about.

Btw, are weights on weapons and armour more akin to modern weapons (as they, IMO, should be) or are weapons still made of lead and cast iron? (2,5 kgs for a pistol? seriously?) Don't get me started on the weights of melee weapons and armour....

I think it differs a lot, depending on the technology of the producing world.

But in general, it should be similar to today I think (or at least to 20th century)

In games like this, carry weight rules with specific kg amounts tend to merely be there if you want to use them. As it's a PnP, this is one of those easy things you can gloss over if you're running a casual game, but it's also nice to have them if you want to use them.

So for meatgrinder or survival horror style campaigns in the system, I do like there to be a convenient reference of "you can carry about this many kg".

(The DH1 rulebook seems to say something to this effect anyway.)

In games like this, carry weight rules with specific kg amounts tend to merely be there if you want to use them. As it's a PnP, this is one of those easy things you can gloss over if you're running a casual game, but it's also nice to have them if you want to use them.

So for meatgrinder or survival horror style campaigns in the system, I do like there to be a convenient reference of "you can carry about this many kg".

(The DH1 rulebook seems to say something to this effect anyway.)

I mainly use it to check for heavy stuff it it can be carried, like armour, heavy weapons or other heavy equipment. But therefor eit is a VERY effiecient limiting factor.

I think the Encumbrance mechanic in DH1e worked just fine.

I am disappointed in "popcorn" mentality- "I can't be bothered to record things like item weights on my Character sheet." Then for what do we even have a Character sheet? It seems there's no problem tracking how the Talent bloat interacts with itself and the combat/injury mechanics, but just simply adding a score of numbers and altering the sum of those numbers a little here and there as game play progresses is "too hard a grognardism."

I agree with The Inquisition- use it, don't use it, it's a group-by-group choice.

I think it didnt work out well in the past.

Carrying limits are giving you too much kg to carry to really care about it.

Therefore usually I end up with all players wearing heavy armour all the time (with some subtlety exceptions).

And everyone - from the adept to the assassin - which makes no sense.

Weaker characters shouldnt be able to wear heavy armour (4+) without penalty.

And weaker means under StrB 4 or 5

I think it didnt work out well in the past.

Carrying limits are giving you too much kg to carry to really care about it.

Therefore usually I end up with all players wearing heavy armour all the time (with some subtlety exceptions).

And everyone - from the adept to the assassin - which makes no sense.

Weaker characters shouldnt be able to wear heavy armour (4+) without penalty.

And weaker means under StrB 4 or 5

YMMV, obviously.

YMCA ?

I think it didnt work out well in the past.

Carrying limits are giving you too much kg to carry to really care about it.

Therefore usually I end up with all players wearing heavy armour all the time (with some subtlety exceptions).

And everyone - from the adept to the assassin - which makes no sense.

Weaker characters shouldnt be able to wear heavy armour (4+) without penalty.

And weaker means under StrB 4 or 5

I wonder, would it maybe be a good idea to impose a minimum strength requirement for using certain items, and make it so that characters who don't meet the requirement suffer from some sort of condition relating to how hard it is to move in heavy stuff without the needed strength backing you up?

I might be trying to solve an issue that the encumbrance system solves fine by itself though.

I think the Encumbrance mechanic in DH1e worked just fine.

I am disappointed in "popcorn" mentality- "I can't be bothered to record things like item weights on my Character sheet." Then for what do we even have a Character sheet? It seems there's no problem tracking how the Talent bloat interacts with itself and the combat/injury mechanics, but just simply adding a score of numbers and altering the sum of those numbers a little here and there as game play progresses is "too hard a grognardism."

I agree with The Inquisition- use it, don't use it, it's a group-by-group choice.

Don't want to do pointless math to figure out exactly how much crap your character can lug around and just want to focus on the "fun" bits like skills and talents? Why even have rules at all!?

One idea is to borrow an idea from D&D and that would be to make high Agility characters harder to hit. They would essentially get a bonus to AP maybe at Agility over 40 perhaps? This would in effect allow some quicker characters to not need heavy armour and instead wear armoured body gloves and so forth. The idea certainly makes body gloves more appealing and allows low strength characters to still realistically protect themselves.

One thing worth considering there is we already have Dodge as its own mechanic; something D&D and its derivatives lack.

High Agility characters are already harder to hit by virtue of being more likely to dodge.

Let's not look to D&D for design decisions. That way lies crunch and the ghosts of failed design choices.

Yeah but as it stands, everyone regardless of the armour and high agility is likely to dodge. I'm trying to distinguish a difference between slower characters that need to rely on heavier armour vs. characters that are quicker that can rely more on reflexes and lighter armour.

A character with high agility is much more likely to want to use it rather than bog themselves down with heavy armour. Of course this is all assuming that AB caps came back into play. As it stands now, the body glove is nearly worthless because why would anyone wear "weaker" armour when they could still perform all of the same maneuvers with heavier armour.

Yeah, agility caps (agility itself, rather than Ab) would be the best way to solve the issue I think. I have no idea why they were removed.