Ah, thanks! I'll take a look tomorrow.

Don't be so quick to thank me. The 3e Codex: Orks is the worst thing GW has ever published.

Black Library novels, where else. Specifically, Dan Abnett seems to have a penchant for Ubermarines.

I knew there was a reason I don't read those things

- And I stand corrected on the quote thing, though I'd suggest the latter kind of inevitably follows from the former given the contradictory nature of the fluff.

Also, your point is well taken

Good luck with trying to make a studio-only setting that hangs together. It sounds fun, but I suspect it isn't quite possible to do. It's not just the freelance fluff-writers who contradict studio fluff.

Orks making stuff work because they believe it will, is not an urban legend, as you call it. The concept has been around since the first edition of the wargame, but with third edition the fluff explicitly said that it wasn't simply an Orc belief that various things worked better if they wanted them to. Orc weapons officially became fuelled by faith, to the extent that other races couldn't make their tech or tools work.

But ... where? Can you point me to a specific Codex that actually says this? That's what I've been saying - I took it at face value because everybody said this. But now that I've tried to confirm this I cannot find any mention of it in GW's books. If I haven't looked hard enough, I'd certainly appreciate any pointers, as I've decided to make my personal interpretation of the setting dependent on what the core studio publishes.

And with urban legends I am referring to "accepted truths" where an entire community, or at least the vocal majority, has subscribed to and propagates a very specific idea as gospel. Like when I've been told that "everything is canon". Or when you've got people saying " Marines are 9 feet high " and not even accept the existence of contradicting material.

Word of mouth is very strong in this franchise, specifically because it is so inconsistent between the various origins.

Doesn't it say some were that astartes don't stop growing and that 7 feet is just a starting height?

Orks making stuff work because they believe it will, is not an urban legend, as you call it. The concept has been around since the first edition of the wargame, but with third edition the fluff explicitly said that it wasn't simply an Orc belief that various things worked better if they wanted them to. Orc weapons officially became fuelled by faith, to the extent that other races couldn't make their tech or tools work.

But ... where? Can you point me to a specific Codex that actually says this? That's what I've been saying - I took it at face value because everybody said this. But now that I've tried to confirm this I cannot find any mention of it in GW's books. If I haven't looked hard enough, I'd certainly appreciate any pointers, as I've decided to make my personal interpretation of the setting dependent on what the core studio publishes.

And with urban legends I am referring to "accepted truths" where an entire community, or at least the vocal majority, has subscribed to and propagates a very specific idea as gospel. Like when I've been told that "everything is canon". Or when you've got people saying "Marines are 9 feet high" and not even accept the existence of contradicting material.

Word of mouth is very strong in this franchise, specifically because it is so inconsistent between the various origins.

GorkaMorka, that's where you'll find "Ork stuff works because Orks think it will work" references.

Good luck with trying to make a studio-only setting that hangs together. It sounds fun, but I suspect it isn't quite possible to do. It's not just the freelance fluff-writers who contradict studio fluff.

Quite so, quite so - though I do find the studio fluff much more consistent than the many individual interpretations published in the licensed material. Probably just because it's one big studio whose staff did not change much over a long time ... and because GW is very fond of copypasting texts from older products.

The more people you have working on a setting, the more likely it is that they bring ideas into it that conflict with something that somebody else wrote. And since GW seems to prefer the muddled "it's all possible" approach rather than Battletech's or Star Wars' clear canon policy, it is all equally valid, and we end up having to cherrypick.

Doesn't it say some were that astartes don't stop growing and that 7 feet is just a starting height?

Never heard of such a thing - though I wouldn't discount the possibility that some author may have published something like that!

Personally, I'd find that highly impractical. Growing out of your armour all the time?

GorkaMorka, that's where you'll find "Ork stuff works because Orks think it will work" references.

Come to think of it, that is one book I've never had the chance to look at!

Growing out of your armour all the time?

Mental image of the week

GorkaMorka, that's where you'll find "Ork stuff works because Orks think it will work" references.

Oh right, GorkaMorka totally slipped my mind. Rebel Grots Go! lol

Lynata you need to find a copy of the books somewhere, because it was basically the last bit of Orkoid greatness for the next 10 years.

Oh right, GorkaMorka totally slipped my mind. Rebel Grots Go! lol

Lynata you need to find a copy of the books somewhere, because it was basically the last bit of Orkoid greatness for the next 10 years.

GorkaMorka was also pre-3rd Ed TT, so...yeah, if that gives you an idea of the fluff development timeline (circa 1996). Great stuff in there about Ork Kulture.

3e... The edition I hated to love. It basically made the rules reasonably playable for the first time, and brought a tiny bit of balance to the table (I still remember the first time my 1500p Bad Moons army got acquainted with a single 2e Virus Grenade on a 4x4' table. And the first time they met a Space Wolf army consisting entirely of 2e Termies with Assault Cannons, Cyclone Launchers and Teleporters - 2e was basically A Game of Cheese).

But it was also the Grimdork Xtr3me edition that threw whole armylists out the window for the next many years/permanently (killed 3 of my armies in one fell stroke, only 1 of which has been patially resurrected), and replaced all the best fluff with the worst the setting had ever seen at that point. And of the armylists that survived, Orks were the ones that suffered the worst kind of retconning into horribleness.

- 2e was basically A Game of Cheese.

True that. A friend of mine used to play a 2E 2,000-point 'army' that consisted of 6 CSMs with maximum equipment...

True that. A friend of mine used to play a 2E 2,000-point 'army' that consisted of 6 CSMs with maximum equipment...

I seem to recall that you could take out an army like that in 2 turns with nothing but an equal number of marines with bikes and gravition guns.

... God I hated gravition guns. My poor, poor screamer-killers

Don't be so quick to thank me. The 3e Codex: Orks is the worst thing GW has ever published.

Then you haven't yet read about Blood Grey Knights or Newcrons.

Although I like Newcrons with their personalities being intact, more or less.

But Blood Angel and Necrons being like this in fluff:

And Blood Grey Knights making party hats and bodypaint out of Sisters of Battle

"Oh, by the love of the Emperor. Turn it off, turn it all off"

Good luck with trying to make a studio-only setting that hangs together. It sounds fun, but I suspect it isn't quite possible to do. It's not just the freelance fluff-writers who contradict studio fluff.

Quite so, quite so - though I do find the studio fluff much more consistent than the many individual interpretations published in the licensed material. Probably just because it's one big studio whose staff did not change much over a long time ... and because GW is very fond of copypasting texts from older products.

The more people you have working on a setting, the more likely it is that they bring ideas into it that conflict with something that somebody else wrote. And since GW seems to prefer the muddled "it's all possible" approach rather than Battletech's or Star Wars' clear canon policy, it is all equally valid, and we end up having to cherrypick.

Doesn't it say some were that astartes don't stop growing and that 7 feet is just a starting height?

Never heard of such a thing - though I wouldn't discount the possibility that some author may have published something like that!

Personally, I'd find that highly impractical. Growing out of your armour all the time?

GorkaMorka, that's where you'll find "Ork stuff works because Orks think it will work" references.

Come to think of it, that is one book I've never had the chance to look at!

It said some veteran first company terminators ARE 12 FEET TALL!!!!

It said some veteran first company terminators ARE 12 FEET TALL!!!!

What novel was that in, exactly?

It said some veteran first company terminators ARE 12 FEET TALL!!!!

What novel was that in, exactly?

well i'm poor and don't live near a book store so its ether the wiki, the Lexicanum, some forum or 1D4Chan...

hummmmmmmmmmm i wander which one it is.

Wow I read most of the replies and the one thing I did not see was....sure eat the orks, eat another living thinking being...Slaneesh WOULD LOVE THIS!!!!

Go ahead then just start making the mutation roles and deviant behavior roles....at least that is what would happen in my game!!!!

Wow I read most of the replies and the one thing I did not see was....sure eat the orks, eat another living thinking being...Slaneesh WOULD LOVE THIS!!!!

Go ahead then just start making the mutation roles and deviant behavior roles....at least that is what would happen in my game!!!!

Look, if we start giving out CPs every time someone does something that slaneesh likes these games would become very very short.

Wow I read most of the replies and the one thing I did not see was....sure eat the orks, eat another living thinking being...Slaneesh WOULD LOVE THIS!!!!

Go ahead then just start making the mutation roles and deviant behavior roles....at least that is what would happen in my game!!!!

Look, if we start giving out CPs every time someone does something that slaneesh likes these games would become very very short.

Not to mention Khorne or Tzeentch.

Khorne = Kill someone, even in sefldefense.

Tzeentch = use subterfuge to gain information about coven of Chaos, Xenos etc etc

I can hear those Corruption points dropping like lead weight on the floor.

But back to the original post and question.

Like someone has pointed out already, I think Orks are a go. Although I think it doesn't taste like Chicken.

And if you can stomach it.

The so-called Waaagh!-field is a more tricky topic. I've taken a stroll through the Codex and the TT rulebooks, but could indeed not locate a specific mention of Orks making their gear work by sheer power of belief. It may indeed seem as if this is just one of the many "urban legends" within the community - personal opinion that, for whatever reason, has become so widely accepted that it is nowadays often presented as universal fact, just like with the myth about 40k canon, the oft-exaggerated body height of the Space Marines, or the Adeptus Mechanicus merely being an ally and an equal partner of the Imperium rather than a fully integrated part of it, to name just a few.

I confess I simply "adopted" this opinion about how Ork technology works as well just because everyone said so, so I guess I ought to thank you for calling this to my attention.

Genetor Lukas Anzion, Chapter XVII: Genetic Predetermination - Hereditary Skill Acquisition within the Ork Caste and Professional Social Structure, last paragraph, 3rd Edition Codex. Also referred to as the Anzion Therem of Orkoid Mechamorphic Resonant Kinetics.

References to Anzion's work (and this snippet) is made furthermore in other ork codexes, and in the Xenology book.

That sounds interesting, I'll give it a look - thanks!

I stopped taking Xenology serious for my own perception of the setting as soon as it tried telling me that Tau have feet instead of hooves or that Ork blood is green, though. I did like the little stories it told a lot, though, and for what it's worth any contradictions could probably be explained away by pointing at the in-character writer having made an error.

Something funny is that even FFG's Deathwatch RPG makes fun of Xenology, with that Ethereal dissection part where the writer notes that they were unable to find any organ that could be capable of manipulating minds, directly contradicting what was presented in the Black Library book.

I think one thing that needs to be taken into account with Xenology is that both the Genetor and the Inquisitor are both going insane (each in their own ways). The Genetor, whose making those sketches and reports, is in love with his collection.

Great for the story, but take the 'facts' with a pinch of salt in Darvin's reports. The other material (such as Anzion's therem appearing in the ork collection), the letters from Inquisitor Czevek, etc, seem much more on the point and 40kish in contrast.

Thanks for all the reply's guy, all just have the crew make an ordinary +10 Toughness test to keep cooked ork down, a +20 test if they been there a week or two, then a +30 if someone gets the cooking skill sound good?

I'd also make you take Insanity, and maybe some Corruption.

Why? Eating the dead bodies of your defeated enemies is something found in tribal traditions here on earth. I don't really see it as much more "insane" or occult than drinking the blood of your saviour for redemption, or sacrificing virgins on a stone altar to keep the sun rising every morning.

The mechanical rules for Insanity and Corruption are meant to deal with the horrible stuff no man should have to see. Eating the dead is just a cultural choice

Well, perhaps drinking the blood of your saviour or sacrificing virgins on a stone altar should net some Insanity and/or Corruption, too?

Entire cultures might in fact be considered tainted - if we're applying the subjective morality system the setting seems to present us with.

... though I'd stop assigning points for "mundane" acts after a certain threshold has been reached and the character has basically become used to it .. or their mindset has been "eroded" that far, so to say.

I'd agree with you, except that for the fact that Corruption points in this games make tentacles grow out of your forehead.

I think that's a pretty important thing people forget when discussing Corruption in game-terms, it's not just insider trading or morally-despicable actions. Corruption is mutating, soul-eating chaos.

It's only really caused by embracing or being exposed to chaos. Sorcery, demons, etc.

You can be as evil as you like, and eat children for every meal of the day. No tentacles for you! Unless you go to the effort of sacrificing them in occult ways!

Hmm... kinda reminds me of the reversed Chaos-Tyranid discussion I read... think on this Forum.

"So, those Tyranids are consuming the Planet, BUT THEY WORSHIP CHAOS!!!!"

"Uhm... and... what's so different about that? They, just... consume the planet? But that's... totally normal, no?"

"Yeah... but... y'know... they're worshipping the Chaos gods while doing so."

"HEEEEREEEEESY! KILL THEM! NO MERCY! JUST KILL THEM ALL!"

Anyway, I still think acts like "eating children for every meal of the day" would, while not directly netting corruption and tentacles, probably leads to some daemon and his boss taking an interest in said individual.

I doubt eating orks would spark interest of any kind in any of the Chaos Gods, except Tzeentch, but nobody knows what he's thinking anyway. It might cost you some sanity doing it the first time, but you can get used to anything I guess. Can't imagine it tasting delicious though and you might have to cook it very well, but ork hot-pot might work. One reason to get that skill as high as possible.

Darth Smeg: Yes, exactly - that's why I've added the remark regarding a threshold. In a different thread, I used the very same argumentation .

But Corruption is, in essence, not just one but two things: the (meta-)physical mutation that you mentioned, and a mental taint that erodes a person's "natural resistance" against said physical corruption. The reason why you don't start growing tentacles out of your forehead just for your first dozen CP, if you will.

The human mind and body need to be pushed over a certain edge in order to have the Warp affect them this way, and here I believe a specific mindset may act as a gateway, subconsciously "inviting" this taint. Many daemons, especially those belonging to Tzeentch, like to tempt mortals with promises and deals that usually offer some wordly advantage, but always, always aim at twisting the individual into becoming more like them, joining the ranks of Chaos' many minions.

tl;dr: There needs to be a "first step" before the tentacles. The first points of Corruption may represent this.

Or, at least that's how I am currently interpreting it.