Example: Master chaos sorcerer Galgaroth the Destroyer is going for a nice stroll. A pack of [insert daemon of choice here] shows up and decide he looks tasty. Can he attempt a daemonic mastery test to command them, or at least cow them into going somewhere else to play (a'la Marduk in the Word Bearer's novels)?

Intuitively I want to say "no," but there's no reason he couldn't use Interaction skills on them instead, assuming they're sentient. Intimidate, Charm? Infamy to influence?

Yes and no*. Summoning and Binding are two seperate actions, which is why it's disconcertingly easy to succeed in Summoning but fail to Bind a daemon**.

Since you can Summon without Binding, it fits logically that you could Bind without Summoning.

However, Summoning and Binding are both elements of a Ritual, so Binding a Daemon would require a Ritual to do. This implies a relatively involved task in terms of effort and time. It's not something one could do 'on spec' with a simple willpower test - the Ritual provides unavoidable prerequisite elements to succeed in the task.

This means that if Galgaroth the Destroyer spots the daemons coming, and has time to carve rune-wards on the ground, or has minions to keep the daemons distracted in battle/feast/torture session whilst he prepares the ritual around them, then maybe.

The resulting ritual will be imperfect and rushed, but if he's good enough, there's no reason it shouldn't work.

I don't feel simply yelling 'Sod Off', on the other hand, qualifies as a 'Ritual'. Even if you do it in Enuncia.

Nothing stops you pre-preparing some elements of a Ritual, though, if you expect it to be needed. Unused 'Binding Wards' are the sort of thing a gifted and intelligent Sorceror might prepare if expecting to face Daemons. As a storyline example, in our campaign the cruiser Will of Tzeench , the flagship of the sorceror Anok Sabe, pointedly has no Gellar Field, but instead has a series of potent Binding runes inscribed into the hull - essentially a blatant 'come and have a go if you think you're hard enough' challenge to any Daemons that may think about attacking it...

As noted by bogi_khaosa, at a simpler level, there's no reason Daemons should not be susceptible to Intimidate, especially from a powerful sorceror.

* Unhelpful answer ahoy!

** Yes, I'm looking at you, James. Seriously, get some dice that roll <90 for this stuff.

Thanks for the replies.

I'm sort of trying to reconcile the often-seen-in-novels-and-fluff chaos sorcerers/dark apostles having some stupid number of daemons at their beck and call/easily rebuking and controlling encountered daemons (again referencing the World Bearers, who don't even bother with a geller field) vs the (surprisingly limited) summoning and binding rituals in the BC rules.

I was thinking maybe if you succeed at a daemonology test at (some penalty), you can attempt Daemonic Mastery. Does that sound reasonable?

And the interaction skills points are good ones.

Can you get Peer (Daemons)?

That's probably one you get get with GM approval and a good background on how you got it.....

You can only use the daemonic mastery mechanics in two different scenarios according to the rules: after you've summoned a daemon in a ritual and when trying to assert control over a daemon weapon.

Encountering a daemon it's unlikely you'd be able to, as you'd probably not have any opportunity to do so, as you'd have in a ritual or if it was in a daemon weapon.

I'm sort of trying to reconcile the often-seen-in-novels-and-fluff chaos sorcerers/dark apostles having some stupid number of daemons at their beck and call/easily rebuking and controlling encountered daemons

In the rules as they exist, there aren't any ways to do this.

The best suggestions I can give you (for sorcerors) is allowing sorcerors access to the Daemonology type from Dark Heresy - essentially sanctuary/banish/rebuke type powers.

I'm all for allowing daemonic masterey in a 'facing a daemon down' sense, but it would need some sort of specific talent - it's not the sort of thing you can do on spec - and it should be massively difficult. Marduk is a Dark Apostle, tutored by a Dark Apostle commanding a host, who has apparently been chosen by destiny. This is more than a cut above your average heretic.

Ritual of Loathing MK II ? -> Ritual of Aetheric Control?

I'm sort of trying to reconcile the often-seen-in-novels-and-fluff chaos sorcerers/dark apostles having some stupid number of daemons at their beck and call/easily rebuking and controlling encountered daemons

In the rules as they exist, there aren't any ways to do this.

The best suggestions I can give you (for sorcerors) is allowing sorcerors access to the Daemonology type from Dark Heresy - essentially sanctuary/banish/rebuke type powers.

I'm all for allowing daemonic masterey in a 'facing a daemon down' sense, but it would need some sort of specific talent - it's not the sort of thing you can do on spec - and it should be massively difficult. Marduk is a Dark Apostle, tutored by a Dark Apostle commanding a host, who has apparently been chosen by destiny. This is more than a cut above your average heretic.

Good idea with the Daemonology; makes sense it would include that information anyway.

Coming up with entirely new powers/rituals isn't a bad idea either, though at the moment I'm leaning towards a daemonology test at -(variable: depends on strength/type of daemon) to get them to back off, and a test at a greater difficulty to be allowed to actually attempt daemonic mastery. Obviously, if they attempt to outright control the daemon and fail, any social interactions/negotiations/etc they might have been able to pull off if they attempted and passed the lesser test will probably go out the window as daemons don't typically like being dominated. Not that anyone does, really...

Obviously, if they attempt to outright control the daemon and fail, any social interactions/negotiations/etc they might have been able to pull off if they attempted and passed the lesser test will probably go out the window as daemons don't typically like being dominated. Not that anyone does, really...

Some people pay good money for that sort of thing.

Obviously, if they attempt to outright control the daemon and fail, any social interactions/negotiations/etc they might have been able to pull off if they attempted and passed the lesser test will probably go out the window as daemons don't typically like being dominated. Not that anyone does, really...

Some people pay good money for that sort of thing.

Heh.