I allow it as well in its original form and the Magister (Psy rating 7, WP 64) in the group that I'm running is certainly powerful, but, we all feel that he is quite balanced compared to the others. They also serve various roles within the warband and the Magister is clearly the "wizard" master of the arcane.

Note, he is also the only Psyker.

In my group the Psyker is certainly the strongest PC in the field of raw power and hence combat with some pretty nasty utility from several schools. But the group is fine with that. Imho a PnP is no MMO where you have to balance every class because some 12-years-old will cry. A PnP is a group activity and, just like in any group, there are people that can some things just better than others. And we use this theme also in our PnP party. Yes, the Psyker can get absurdly strong if he wants to but that does not devalue the other PCs.

Everyone of them is proficient and, to a degree, they also take some of their pride from achieving things as a human (With some gifts certainly) without resorting to the arcane powers of the warp. Take the Khorne devotee we have, he is pretty suspicious about the Psyker, every balancing on the thin line to open hatred though he views him as a tool. When things get nasty he still knows that he is a formidable if not exceptional warrior that achieves great deeds for his god. The fact that the psiker just blasted a battle-tank is because of cheating. Yep, that is what psykers do. Cheating. Or how do you explain resorting to the powers of emotion to break the laws of the physical world?

It is a bit like the Avengers. Everyone of them is a hero but sometimes they just say. "We have a Hulk."

Thats how the Psyker works in our group. If the ***** hits the fan really hard they "play" the Psyker-going-nuts-card and are glad they have him. On the other side he is not perfect in any case and that his power came with a cost. Every PC is a valuable character with his own story but when they assemble to fight a greater enemy (something they do constantly) there is always that guy/Hulk that plays ping-pong with a god. But did you see tony stark being jealous of that? Did Thor cry like a baby for how overpowered he is? Everyone is a hero, threat them like that and give everyone his spotlight where they can shine. If the psyker annihilated something really big in one turn. Okay. But that does not mean the Khorne Devotee cant feel awesome after he won a Hellblade by defeating a Herald of Khorne in a "fair" duel.

An important element for a healthy group is self-containment. Just because you CAN take Force Storm doesn't mean you have to. It's possible to make a psyker that's not "overpowered", or atleast not much more powerful in a certain situation by some non-psyker in that same situation.

Interestingly nowadays I only make my psykers human. I find sorcerers too well-rounded with all the tools they get from being Astartes. I really hate it when people take the Sorcerer archetype and then build it like a Chosen. I also like the Corpse Conversion talent, which just so happens to have human as a prereq. And did I mention I like a lot of corruption when I play psykers? It's fun and flavourful. And allows you quick access to Wind of Chaos, the killer of hordes (and everything else, especially non-effective AP), and the bane of your melee-focused warband members.

Corruption improves fate points and provides Gifts. I'm not sure who doesn't want more corruption, at least until they get to 81.

Then again, I like using playing a "buff" psyker, where you improve your own capabilities or the capabilities of others. Coincidentally, this also lets you turn another player into an anti-psyker bomb with the right powers. Hilarity ensues.

Me: "Here, have Warptime. And Host of Fiends."

Chosen: "Hey, thanks!"

later...

Chosen (FIghting Ultramarines): "I charge the Librarian!"

GM: "Okay."

Me: "I Focus Hatestorm through the Chosen."

Chosen: "Wait, what?"

Mass combat ensues, with much bloodthirst and no retreat on either side. The Chosen was not amused, but the Librarian ended up frenzying. It was determined that he could not use psychic powers.

Me: "I start Focusing for Sunder the Veil."

GM: "Wait, what?"

End result- Bloodletters start spawning, chaos, damage, and mass death ensue, no escapes, Just as Planned.

Edit: I should make it clear that my Chosen ally came out of that just fine. He didn't need to worry about psychic phenomena and the spawning bloodletters ruined many ultrasmurf days.

Corruption improves fate points and provides Gifts. I'm not sure who doesn't want more corruption, at least until they get to 81.

Those who are afraid of reaching a gift threshold with failing corruption.

I FEAR NOTHING.

... Yeah, you make a decent point, fine.

BUT I STILL FEAR NOTHING.

As to your earlier post: what you did wasn't legal as far as I know. As far as I can remember (being away from my book), it takes 6 rounds to utilize the runes path of power (as it appeared as you did with "channeling it through the chosen"). 6 rounds to manifest a power in the midst of combat? Not very time-efficient. And I'm not entirely sure whether or not you need to be able to touch the runes when manifesting the power as part of the 6 rounds — in which case the 'I channel it from range' wouldn't work either.

So in the end you've got 1, maybe 2, things making what you did not legal.

Corruption improves fate points and provides Gifts. I'm not sure who doesn't want more corruption, at least until they get to 81.

Those who are afraid of reaching a gift threshold with failing corruption.

Add those who are afraid to be consumed by Chaos to the list. (RP)

Brothar- there was a time lapse in my recounting- I took the whole six rounds for each one, while I hid behind a rock and tried not to get shot. As a human psyker, I felt no great need to walk into the Ultramarines tossing out Doombolts with a great big "shoot me" sign hanging over my head Space Marines as Horde is no joke

The Chosen would have probably rather I'd done so to take some of the heat off him, but we had other players and supporting troops, so I had time to start bringing the powers on-line anyway. It wasn't a quick battle, but once the Sunder went off it was certainly one-sided.

I don't recall anything about touching the runes though- I thought marking them yourself was sufficient. We may have been doing that wrong. I must investigate this.

12+ rounds? Your warband must be really inefficient in combat if your psyker had so much time to waste doing nothing. And anyone's best friend is a good rating force field. That's my first priority when playing a human (and pretty high up there when playing CSM too).

While the Profane Symbols Path of Power doesn't explicitly say you need to be close to the markings, it seems plausible you should be — otherwise you could technically manifest something from a long range. Not very balanced. But technically the rules could be read as you mark and manifest both during the 6 rounds, which can be practically improbable depending on how large an area you have to mark. If it's just spitting some blood on the floor to act as the center (or ally target) then I suppose it should be fine to count the 'marking' a part of the 6 round manifestation duration — in essence requiring you to be close enough.

In any case, I've read up on the issue now and can provide some more information on how the stuff your psyker did wasn't rules legal. You can only cast powers with "Range: Self" on allies using the Profane Symbols Path of Power. Host of Fiends, Hatestorm and Sunder the Veil all lack that particular detail. They're all radius-based powers centered on yourself, not "Range: Self" powers. They can only be used to target an area with Profane Symbols, but not be cast on an ally. And preparing an area can be a bit tricky unless you know there will be a fight at that exact location.

Sorry to disappoint.

Whups. I'll have to go prostrate myself before the GM.

Re: using powers at long range- I'd actually convinced the GM to let me get away with that. The challenging part was finding a place where I could hide what was, in effect, a ritual space, then using that to manifest area powers centered there from a distance. Think terrorism a la sorcery. While this may not be RAI, it was permitted- as long as fairly hefty amounts of effort and preparation went into it.

I trust in FFG. Their rules would never lead us astray. Force Storm must be balanced somehow!

I trust in FFG. Their rules would never lead us astray. Force Storm must be balanced somehow!

Yeah +/-60 is still the maximum modifier in BC. although only places I could find information about that is Summoning Ritual Modifiers and such.

Well I'm sure it's there, some where, under all that clutter.

Page 241 Core Rulebook, "Step One" it says "The maximum total bonus that can be applied to a test is +60. Conversely, the maximum total penalty that can be applied to a test is -60."

Although it is in the combat section so open to interpretation.