Hi,

one of my player (rank 4 cleric) got injured now by a power sword. And now he wants to have a power sword. And I bring the argument he doesn't know what it is/was or what he has to look for. Or any knowlege in general of it. So why should he be able to find it?

So to my question.

I am thinking about adding a house rule that you can only look for specific things when you know it.

Basically I am trying to get rid of the metagaming use in my group like: "oh this weapon looks good I want it".

Does anyone have any advises for it?

Greetings from swiss.

It sounds like the real problem is that you care about distinguishing between in character and out of character knowledge, while your player doesn't. If that's the case, the power sword issue won't be the last. You might want to discuss your expectations of the game with your players between your next couple of sessions, so things like that can be addressed.

As for how to identify the weapon, DH RAW gives you two ways of resolving questions like that.

One is purely mechanical: you simply set up an investigation test per the rules on p.186 of the Core rules, describing what happens in the fiction in as much or as little detail as you wish.

The other one is purely roleplay based. The character seeks out people he think might know about power swords, until he eventually finds a Munitorum clerk who does, or thinks to ask his Inquisitor (who'll either know or has the resources out very quickly - and reason to, as finding out about amazingly powerful magic swords is kind of what Inquisitors do), or dies.

I'd suggest an acolyte would be able to find out about power swords very, very easily. They're the sort of weapons almost everyone has heard about in 40K, like bolters. Kids grow up hearing about them in bedtime stories. Soldiers hear about them during service. Munitorum clerks probably dream about seeing one some day. And your acolyte's employer, Mr.I will most definitely know what power weapons are.

Power weapons aren't forbidden tech in the Imperium. They're just exceedingly rare.

Obtaining a power weapon, though.. If you're not comfortable with the character having one, don't let him have one. The weapons are stupidly rare and there's no reason an acolyte should necessarily be able to get his hands on a functional one, even if he lives to be 300 (which he might, with rejuv & whatnot).

I'm with Simsum here; this is something you need to talk with your players about. The level of metagaming differs from game to game and group to group, so if it's an issue to you, it's a conversation you need to have.

However... unless the characters are specifically ignorant for some reason, I'd expect them to know what power-weapons are. They might not know how they work or who makes them or where they come from, but they are common enough to not be stuff of legends. The upper class and military officers use them commonly enough for most people with an interest in the subject to know about them, I'd say, and your acolytes are likely to encounter power weapons every once in a while, at least.

Really, after at least getting cut by one of those things you should know that they exist and fairly easily figure out what it was, asking around. Anyone with Common Lore (Tech) or (War) should be able to make an easy roll for it, at least.

It's not like Power Weapons are archaeotech or anything.

But just letting people be able to acquire what they can reasonably know exists is perfectly reasonable.

I am thinking about adding a house rule that you can only look for specific things when you know it.

Basically I am trying to get rid of the metagaming use in my group like: "oh this weapon looks good I want it".

This is what I did to counteract the 'power creep' in the later DH supplements: rather than constantly saying " This weapon is banned from my campaign", " That armour is banned from my campaign", I just instituted an all-encompassing house rule that characters can't shop for gear that they have no way of knowing exists . Just because Timmy Powergamer has scoured Book of Judgement to figure out the best combinations of 'stacking' armour doesn't mean that his illiterate feral world Guardsman character has heard of a 'Balistic Surcoat' and 'Synford-Pattern Lockshield' or- ugh - 'Leatherwort'. This prevents a multitude of headaches...

I pre-define what's available during missions. Between missions I'll take requests, decide if their dream gear is available, and offer alternatives if it isn't.

Gear has a massive impact on acolyte performance, both in and out of combat. Imposing the kind of hardcore GM fiat restrictions I do, makes life enormously much easier on yourself when it comes to adventure design. Because, for example, what's a challenging combat encounter for a bodyglove'd guy with a mono sword, is a complete waste of time for a powerarmoured guy with a power sword.

Mind that being a hardass doesn't mean you have to ban the good stuff. It's just a tool to stay on top of what the individual PCs can do, and for ensuring none of them perform wildly differently from the rest (or at least don't do so in ways you didn't see coming).

Thanks for the good tips. Gonna try them out.

I have two of these Timmys. But your post gave me some good ideas thank you guys.

As always you are great =)

Another idea is to allow them to access these weapons but with some sort of catch.

These could be anything and everything from:

- Obtaining them illegally which could create problems for the PC if this was ever discovered.

- The weapon has some sort of fault whether is a random stats reduction or something that will inconvenience the character.

- Maintaining the weapon is beyond their skill and professional assistance must be relied on regularly to keep it working properly.

- Ammunition for the weapon are very rare/expensive.

Etc.

Just saying no is not fun for anyone but if you say "yes but..." then things really get interesting.

Just saying no is not fun for anyone but if you say "yes but..." then things really get interesting.

'Contacts' from Inquisitor's Handbook make life interesting. Yes, a trusted contact who's a gunrunner makes it much easier to gain access to good gear - including ammo for it - but a 'trusted contact' is likely to feel entitled to ask for 'the odd favour' every so often. We had our party asked to retrieve something which had been impounded by the Arbites, which turned out to be a box of several hundred Lathe 'Body-Blower' shells. Which, lacking the authority to re-sieze them, they ended up yoinking in a smash-and-grab. Cheesing it in a groundcar along a hive arterial, they were quite disconcerted to see a Vulture in arbites colours pursuing them, spinning up rotary punishers...the resulting car chase led to one of the most scenes in the campaign, until they finally managed to get in touch with someone with the authority to tell the Arbites to stand down.

This led to an even more interesting scene with the Inquisitor calmly and politely asking "precisely why was an arbites assault gunship chasing you?" (they may not have officially mentioned their standing 'deal' with the arms trader to the Inquisitor prior to this point).

They got a few shells themselves for their trouble, which they appreciated...but subsequently found a gang they attacked (a couple of months later) had a combat shotgun loaded with the things (of course he's going to sell them, isn't he?). Which ended badly for Mr " I'm In Storm Trooper Armour And Immune To Gunfire, follow Me! " who ended up hospitalised with less than the standard issue number of limbs.

Good stuff

Pretend there's an evil grin emoticon here.

Good stuff

I mostly skimmed the Contact/Resource rules but after this story I'm definitely going to give those a good read and introduce some new 'helpful' characters.

Pretend there's an evil grin emoticon here.

I think your Avatar is sufficient enough

I mostly skimmed the Contact/Resource rules but after this story I'm definitely going to give those a good read and introduce some new 'helpful' characters.

Pretend there's an evil grin emoticon here.

Contacts and resources really help flesh characters out, I think. Plus, it's a very useful rule mechanically - essentially allowing access to 'research' and 'procurement' type skills at a reasonable quantity of XP - albeit with strings attached. Plus they can't help but provide you with history (how exactly are you friends with a Hive-Spire scholar of antiquities?) and ready-made story hooks (a panicked vox-call which is cut off halfway through)

In our campaigns my group have found that it's best to try to keep "shopping" to a minimum, it's too easy to break balance, or utterly defuse tension trudging about in rulebooks.

One of my players is a particularly bad example of the "happy shopper" who goes out of his way to find traders and then badgers them (i.e. me the GM) for interesting items to purchase.

In the past this has led to odd moments, one was when the underhive gunsmith my player was hassling to fixup his weapons with a newly scavenged gunsight revealed he had no gunsmithing expertise at all, and was simply selling stolen weapons for his gang-affilitated brother.

He did however have a moonshining operation in the back of his shop, and sold the players a few bottles of "Emperor's finest" an exceptionally strong booze that had all of the effects of de-tox and several gentle taps a shock weapon but could also be used either as a firebomb or (exceptionally poor quality) flamer fuel.

Just remember, just beause something exists and your players have the money to buy it doesn't mean they'll ever meet anyone who has one for them to buy.

I'm sure there are plenty of rich nobles in the 40k 'verse who'd love to own an Astartes/titan/land raider/my little pony backpack, but these things just aren't being offered for sale.

I'm sure there are plenty of rich nobles in the 40k 'verse who'd love to own an Astartes/titan/land raider/my little pony backpack, but these things just aren't being offered for sale.

Ah, Lord-Captain Sarvus Trask, you crazy nutter.

One of the things we know about him is that he has a standing feud with the Koronus Mechanicus because they refused to sell him a titan - he wanted to weld one to the front of his ship to act as the figurehead.

Rogue trader:; rich enough that they're "eccentric" not "pants on head insane".

Anything of Rare+ availability should be **** near impossible to find. Even if the rulebooks make it reasonable to find a Power Sword on a Hive World, you are not a slave to those rules. Random traders don't run around with Power Swords. Feel free to alter availability as you see fit.

Then let them roll inquiry and fail. That way, nobody can complain.

Anything of Rare+ availability should be **** near impossible to find. Even if the rulebooks make it reasonable to find a Power Sword on a Hive World, you are not a slave to those rules. Random traders don't run around with Power Swords. Feel free to alter availability as you see fit.

Then let them roll inquiry and fail. That way, nobody can complain.

This is bad advice. One of the biggest flaws of the RAW acquisition system is that it's all down to luck - one player can roll amazingly and get everything they look for while another fails to find even basic gear.

I try to give the players gear they think is cool and will help them fight what I'm throwing at them without making it too easy.

That's the system for you, and it works the same for combat. One player can shoot and hit every time, and the other can fail every test.

Anything of Rare+ availability should be **** near impossible to find. Even if the rulebooks make it reasonable to find a Power Sword on a Hive World, you are not a slave to those rules. Random traders don't run around with Power Swords. Feel free to alter availability as you see fit.

Then let them roll inquiry and fail. That way, nobody can complain.

This is bad advice. One of the biggest flaws of the RAW acquisition system is that it's all down to luck - one player can roll amazingly and get everything they look for while another fails to find even basic gear.

I try to give the players gear they think is cool and will help them fight what I'm throwing at them without making it too easy.

That's like saying the entire system is flawed, because it uses dice and chance.

Seriously guys? Are you telling me that in a situation where Sally aces every requisitions check and gets totally blinged out with shinies and Bob flubs every single roll and can barely locate bullets for his starting autopistol, that's totally fine? Think Bob's having a good time when it comes to combat and just sits in the back while Sally roasts everything with her inferno pistol?

Missing a shot in combat and failing to find gear may both be a single die roll but they're not the same. One has a much bigger impact than the other. Equivocating them is missing the point.

The rules are there for a reason, but they can't be the ultimate arbiter. That's part of the reason why the GM exists.

Well, tell that to the fella who just failed his Blood Loss roll.

Personally I think the system is wonky as hell, but saying that the element of chance is only a problem in some situations and not others is a bit strange, methinks.

Besides, that's what Fate Points are for, no?

And remember, you can assist each other in Inquiry tests.

Anything of Rare+ availability should be **** near impossible to find. Even if the rulebooks make it reasonable to find a Power Sword on a Hive World, you are not a slave to those rules. Random traders don't run around with Power Swords. Feel free to alter availability as you see fit.

Then let them roll inquiry and fail. That way, nobody can complain.

This is bad advice. One of the biggest flaws of the RAW acquisition system is that it's all down to luck - one player can roll amazingly and get everything they look for while another fails to find even basic gear.

I try to give the players gear they think is cool and will help them fight what I'm throwing at them without making it too easy.

You basically made my point. Being that acquiring things is generally down to a dice roll (inquiry) in the RaW, which is a terrible idea IMO, I simply hack those rules down/away.

You are likely never going to find a Power Sword simply "for sale" on some random hive world - especially if your group is mucking about in the lower hives... hell, even in the middle hives. Those items are even more rare than the availability suggests. So, I simply don't allow for the players to make that roll. Now, if they were on a forge world, or in the spires of Hive Sibellus, I'd allow it. I may step it up a few degrees of difficulty, or offer bonuses to the roll, depending on the circumstances.

All said, high end gear should be hard to find. Like... really hard. so hard, in fact, that under most circumstances, you simply cannot find it.

Rather than tell my players, "No, you can't have that for [reason]", I try to give them a task to do in order to get what they're looking for that scales in difficulty or repercussions by how rare the item is.

You won't find a power sword for sale in the lower hive, but a local drug lord is owed a great sum by a degenerate noble known for carrying one. Bring him in and you can keep his sword. How his family feels about you kicking in his door and kidnapping him on behalf of a drug gang is the players' problem.

That, or present it to them in a situation that's a little too good to be true. There's a noble who will sell you the inferno pistol at a discount, but if you look into him he's wanted for questioning in a series of murders and the inferno pistol is the murder weapon. Players will never do this and two sessions from now when the authorities have nabbed him and he tells them about the gun they'll get a knock on the door from the authorities looking for his accomplices.

Just buying gear is boring.

Anything of Rare+ availability should be **** near impossible to find. Even if the rulebooks make it reasonable to find a Power Sword on a Hive World, you are not a slave to those rules. Random traders don't run around with Power Swords. Feel free to alter availability as you see fit.

Then let them roll inquiry and fail. That way, nobody can complain.

This is bad advice. One of the biggest flaws of the RAW acquisition system is that it's all down to luck - one player can roll amazingly and get everything they look for while another fails to find even basic gear.

I try to give the players gear they think is cool and will help them fight what I'm throwing at them without making it too easy.

You basically made my point. Being that acquiring things is generally down to a dice roll (inquiry) in the RaW, which is a terrible idea IMO, I simply hack those rules down/away.

You are likely never going to find a Power Sword simply "for sale" on some random hive world - especially if your group is mucking about in the lower hives... hell, even in the middle hives. Those items are even more rare than the availability suggests. So, I simply don't allow for the players to make that roll. Now, if they were on a forge world, or in the spires of Hive Sibellus, I'd allow it. I may step it up a few degrees of difficulty, or offer bonuses to the roll, depending on the circumstances.

All said, high end gear should be hard to find. Like... really hard. so hard, in fact, that under most circumstances, you simply cannot find it.

While I disagree with the belief that rolling for acquisitions, I do agree with the rest.

Some items should just not be acquirable, depending on circumstance, and the GM should absolutely adjust availability or the difficulties involved in finding or acquiring gear, more often than not.

The basic tables in the game should only serve as a baseline for comparison, and never anything else.

This goes double for assigned prices in Thrones, by the way, especially considering that they are sometimes waaaay off.

Just buying gear is boring.

Agreed, but basic things - like a stub auto or lascarbine - I generally make purchasable without much effort. They are so common that finding 1 or 2 should be almost an afterthought on most hives.

Just buying gear is boring.

Agreed, but basic things - like a stub auto or lascarbine - I generally make purchasable without much effort. They are so common that finding 1 or 2 should be almost an afterthought on most hives.

I would expect to find cratefulls of them in most hives, considering their widescale usage.