Well said. Although I now await the response where he cherry picks something and then twists it to try (but ultimately fail) to reaffirm his negligible and nonsensical point with more Rebellion propaganda!

Basically, if you have some intellectual capacity for thinking and processing around average levels you would realise that this can't be boiled down to a simpler right/wrong binary solution... I mean, sure, it can, but then it becomes stupid (and moralistic beyond reason)

So, er... what is you actually like about Star Wars?

--

The vietcong never won any battles and generally got slaughtered in droves but the US's will to fight faltered first and they took their ball and went home. The Rebels win most of their battles and the casualty rates are generally heavily stacked in their favor. Clearly not an exact match.

Perhaps more to the point, the problem with playing Vietnam wargames is finding someone who wants to play the vietcong.

All of your notions from 2 pages back are proven untrue just by watching the Tattooine scenes in ANH.

Vietcong never won any battles hahaha omg this is so historically inaccurate AND offensive to anyone who knows anyone who served in Vietnam or had to flee Vietnam because of it, not that anything better should be expected from you.

All of your notions from 2 pages back are proven untrue just by watching the Tattooine scenes in ANH.

How so? The Empire recruits mostly from the core worlds where life is very different from the fringe.

1) So, er... what is you actually like about Star Wars?

2) The vietcong never won any battles and generally got slaughtered in droves but the US's will to fight faltered first and they took their ball and went home. The Rebels win most of their battles and the casualty rates are generally heavily stacked in their favor. Clearly not an exact match.

And to reiterate a point you (consistently) ignore: there's a difference between Star Wars the movies and the tv-series, the expanded universe, and ... duh duh duuuh! Roleplaying Games! Now you seem to not fathom this, whether this is because of working class inbreeding as a result of Thatcherism (no offence to the rest of you brits on here, I love you guys really, even if its a police state ) or some other reason, like being told you're special your whole life and therefore never really understood that you're not, I don't know. But you mix and match standpoints, arguments and premisses for the discussion, you're basically being nonsensical, arbitrary and pre-adolescent to such a degree that I have to keep coming back here, it's addictive to read your retarded and moronic statements that have basis in your shallow imagination and less than accurate (completely bastardised really) understanding of history and society.

2) I find your lack of education and knowledge of history disturbing...

So, I beg you, please stop making this about "who's the best of Rebels and Empire" - because frankly, it's not what this is about, it doesn't matter, it's a pointless question, because we know that the Rebels will win by GM (i.e. Geroge Lucas) fiat, whether the Stormtroopers are supposed to be elite or not doesn't matter, they will lose anyway, because that's how they serve the story, but we do actually know they're supposed to be elite, that's how they're portrayed, and no extremist and stupendous fundamentalism from you can change that fact - that they lose against the heroes doesn't make the Stormtroopers less elite, it makes the heroes into heroes... Now this point is different and not the same as concluding as you do, the way you do it... because the point is that any NPC, minion, rival or nemesis, is there to SERVE THE STORY .

And at no points in any film or tv-show, or novel or comic book that I've read, is the training of rebel infantry described as "elite" or "superb", nowhere are they shown to have superior equipment... that is you "inferring" from no data but your own wishes and vivid, but shallow and one-sided, imagination.

Now, of course this is not the same as saying the Rebels are stupid or not effective, because obviously they are. But it's not really a good or fair comparison for either of them, because their tactics differ, and none is "better" than the other. The fact that the Rebels win does not prove your point or prove that they are "better", it proves only they won because it served the plot and they had the most heroic heroes, so it tells us nothing about the regular Rebel soldier.

Now, go ahead ignore all that you don't understand, pick a sentence or better yet, a part of a sentence, twist into something you can understand and reply something nonsensical, referring to something unrelated based on your tabloid newspaper education.

Basically, if you have some intellectual capacity for thinking and processing around average levels you would realise that this can't be boiled down to a simpler right/wrong binary solution... I mean, sure, it can, but then it becomes stupid (and moralistic beyond reason)

So, er... what is you actually like about Star Wars?

and you forgot the rest of the sentence I wrote, which is kind the key, but by now I understand you can barely read, so I shouldn't expect you to understand full sentences. In case you didn't manage to read it, I have it here.

The following should end the sentence you quoted from me ErikB: "and while stupid is fun, entertaining, simple and enjoyable, it's not necessarily as fun, entertaining and enjoyable as using your brain... what you are proposing is an ultimately stupid and boring game, might as well play Risk... or yahtzee... or if that is too much of a challenge, since the dice decide everything, you can play a computer game like Duke Nukem Forever and be lead by the nose through a misogynist and moronic world of stupid people and a retarded hero."

Another instance of 'let's just agree to disagree', because my Stormtroopers - and those, it appears, of most visitors to these boards - will be more than people who can't shoot remotely well.

Then how come they always lose, especially since they so vastly outnumber their foes?

We've already established that as not being true.

Can someone propose a skype or Roll20 game and invite ErikB as a player? While I wouldn't want to run it, I would love to sit in as a player and experience that.

Oddly, I agree.

And at no points in any film or tv-show, or novel or comic book that I've read, is the training of rebel infantry described as "elite" or "superb",

That's partially why I think the Stormtroopers training must be terrible , since the rebels usually seem to come out on top.

Anyway, this is a bit from the WEG Rebel Alliance Sourcebook in which Crix Madine is giving new rebel officers an orientation briefing:-

As you can see, but the numbers, the picture is pretty bleak. The Empire's forces outnumber the Alliance forces by a factor of about 30 to one in raw manpower, but better than 12 to one in equipment, and by about 15 to one in warships and transports. The numbers are equally grim when you compare weapons research, intelligence, and supplies.

However, there are some extremely important mitigating factors which do much to offset these considerable disadvantages. First and foremost, we're the good guys, and out forces are strictly volunteer. Every man, woman and alien joins our cause because they want to be here, not because some corrupt recruiting agent dragooned them into service. It is impossible to measure morale with the same accuracy as numbers of troopers, but from the evidence, because we want to fight, we fight much better than they do.

Second, the Imperials have a lot more to lose than we do because we control few cities and we have limited manufacturing capacity. We also don't have many training centers, and the ones we do have are well-hidden. The Imperials, on the other hand, have everything. They own the cities, the starship ports, the factories and the supply depots. And therefore, they are responsible for defending them.

Of course, we realise that the value of this second point is debatable - claiming our extreme poverty as an asset. And I, for one, would be happy to have even a quarter of their resources, even if it did mean that we had to defend them. However, it is indisputable that well over half of the Imperial troops in the galaxy are tied down defending their tremendous wealth. This leaves them inadequate forces with which to take the offensive, and that gives us the initiative. I'll take initiative over equipment any day.

Third and finally, we have the edge in leadership. Unquestionably. The Emperor is a ruthless despot, and he's cunning as hell. Vader is… well, he's the most frightening being it has ever been my misfortune to meet. He's evil and smart. But the rest of the Imperials - the admirals, governors, Moffs and generals - for the most part they're pure scum. They are data-pushers, bootlickers and sycophant, and far better at bureaucratic in-fighting and backstabbing than at command.

On the other hand, our leaders - including you, gentlebeings - are brilliant, dedicated energetic, and willing to take risks. You're not in it for the money, nor do you crave the power for its own sake. If you wanted those things, you'd be working for the enemy now. You're in the war because you love freedom and hate oppression. You're in it because something deep inside you wouldn't let you sit by and watch your planets, your friends and your family, be trampled under the unfeeling jackboots of those butchers. You're in it because you'd rather die than submit.

You, gentlebeings, are why we will win.

The Rebels don't need to be great. They just need to be better than the Imps.

The book also later notes that the rebels superior marksmanship and their preference for heavy blaster rifles instead of blaster carbines gives the rebels a great edge in combat, especially at long range.

Now you're citing rpg book fluff... and this fluff doesn't really support your theory of the Stormtroopers being inferior... that list contains strategic and logistical challenges that they Rebels don't have, in no way does that mean that the Rebel infantry is superior to the Stormtroopers - the Rebels have the initiative and a different type of leadership. That is a different thing altogether than superior training... how can you mix these things into that hardly understandable soup that is you nonsensical standpoint?

Again, the Rebels usually lose to the Empire, not the other way around. Even when the Rebels pull off a victory, it's usually hard won.

On the subject of ewoks... the only thing I noticed about that scene is that the furballs took down Imperials where the Rebels got owned.

So...

Ewoks > Imperials > Rebels.

Ah...but you forgot that C-3P0 is their god.

Droids>Ewoks>Imperials>Rebels

...using your logic.

On the subject of ewoks... the only thing I noticed about that scene is that the furballs took down Imperials where the Rebels got owned.

So...

Ewoks > Imperials > Rebels.

Ah...but you forgot that C-3P0 is their god.

Droids>Ewoks>Imperials>Rebels

...using your logic.

Lol! Excellent point, well made!

So... even C-3PO is better than the Rebels, by Erik's rationale.

how can you mix these things into that hardly understandable soup that is you nonsensical standpoint?

The same way Lucas et al assembled Star Wars out of bits of Flash Gordon, bits of War Movies, bits of Samurai Movies, bits of Westerns and bits of anything else they thought was cool.

The Alliance are vietcong except when it is cooler to be the Allies in the second world war or NATO in the cold war or the Good Guys from a Call of Duty game. The Empire are Nazis or the British Empire or the US in Vietnam except when that would make them look cool, when they are North Koreans or Bin Laden's Caliphate instead.

You are an idiot.

Never a truer word was spoken.

The biggest enjoyment I get from reading Erick B’s drivel is imagining Dave Filoni or (please make it happen) George Lucas stumble across it and have them scratching their heads in as much disbelieve as we are in.

Do you think Erik bases his day-to-day activities off of his belief that Star Wars = Real Life? Like, do you think he paid for an elaborate "ZOMG We're free! Lolz!" party when the Ewoks beat the Empire for the Rebels on Endor, and held a funeral for Darth Vader when he sacrificed himself for his son?

I can just imagine him at the shops... "What do you mean you don't accept Republic credits?! OMG! You must be a nazi!"

@ ErikB's remark about Vietnam... everyone else sees the problem with and irony of this, I imagine?

Do you think Erik bases his day-to-day activities off of his belief that Star Wars = Real Life?

Considering how he thinks Star Wars works, that's one scary twisted view of real life that you're alluding to....

Come on guys

http://www.cracked.com/article_18858_the-biggest-star-wars-plot-hole-explained-by-science.html

I'd sooner just drop all real-world inferences when it comes to Star Wars. They never look good.

I'm just about as pro-Alliance as it's possible to get, and Erik is making me feel really bad about that

I hope whatever the Imperials are paying him is worth it!

@ ErikB's remark about Vietnam... everyone else sees the problem with and irony of this, I imagine?

Everyone except for ErickB...