Never been into Legacy. The setting is cool but the art and writing always detracted from it for me.

You have alien stormtroopers,

Ah yes, the 501st Alien Stormtrooper Legion.

Footsloggers and soldiers of fortune, priests, poets, killers and cads -- they fight for the future Galactic Empire, for cash, for a cause, for the thrill of adventure. Culled from the forgotten and unwanted of the galaxy, they are trained to be the most elite, and expendable, of fighting forces. Sometimes peacekeepers, sometimes shock troops, the 501st Legion is sent into the Galactic Empire's most desperate internal and external conflicts. Stormtroopers live rough and they die hard, tough as durasteel and loyal to the dirty end.

Still want to do a campaign around these guys.

And the fun is, their lineage actually goes as far back as the Hand of Judgment and not to the 'original' 501st Legion (they were concurrent from "months after Yavin" through Endor).

I seem to recall that in legacy it wasn't just the 501st that had non humans. It was the empire took anyone who wanted to serve. Also, by that time, stormtroopers were the regular army.

I seem to recall that in legacy it wasn't just the 501st that had non humans. It was the empire took anyone who wanted to serve. Also, by that time, stormtroopers were the regular army.

They did, yes. The entire stormtrooper corp was taking aliens. Both factions of the stormtrooper corp in the Legacy comics had them.

Personally, I like the stormtroopers as they are now. But I can scale them as the game goes on. To simulate a more elite stormtrooper, like a 501st, I could add the talents Adversary 1 and Deadly Accuracy and give them a boost die to their Perception checks for advanced helmet optics. It gives them a little more edge.

The Imperial Army as an entity distinct from Stormtroopers isn't going to show up anywhere else though, so the game really needs a basic stormtrooper to fill the low level mook role the Imperial Army dudes are currently occupying.

Personally, I like the stormtroopers as they are now. But I can scale them as the game goes on. To simulate a more elite stormtrooper, like a 501st, I could add the talents Adversary 1 and Deadly Accuracy and give them a boost die to their Perception checks for advanced helmet optics. It gives them a little more edge.

The Imperial Army as an entity distinct from Stormtroopers isn't going to show up anywhere else though, so the game really needs a basic stormtrooper to fill the low level mook role the Imperial Army dudes are currently occupying.

I actually plan on my mooks being Imperial Army dudes, starport security, etc. I'm reserving Stormtroopers for special, challenging, occassions and beefing them up a bit if needed.

Personally, I like the stormtroopers as they are now. But I can scale them as the game goes on. To simulate a more elite stormtrooper, like a 501st, I could add the talents Adversary 1 and Deadly Accuracy and give them a boost die to their Perception checks for advanced helmet optics. It gives them a little more edge.

The Imperial Army as an entity distinct from Stormtroopers isn't going to show up anywhere else though, so the game really needs a basic stormtrooper to fill the low level mook role the Imperial Army dudes are currently occupying.

The AT-AT and AT-ST in ESB crews certainly don't look like Stormtroopers. Silly helmets and all.

And there's Imp Army forces in a couple of the novels. And in the Marvel Comics from the 80's.

So, get a grip, Eric.

And just to show you that it's not me just being an ass, have a wookiepedia link: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_Army

Said entry makes extensive reference to WEG's Imperial Sourcebook , and to Del Rey's Essential Guide to Warfare . But still, this establishes a pattern of the stormtroopers being a separate service that skims the top of the Army's recruits.

By comparison to the original clone troopers, I'm certain there are much wider divergences and much less intense training for non-clone Stormtroopers; compared to the pretty damned good clone troopers from TCW, yeah, they should suck.

But they still are better than the dregs of the IA infantry. Most of whom should probably be Br2 Ag2 In2 Pe2 WP1 Pr1 Minons (Ranged Heavy, Brawl). Not much worse than the Stormtroopers, until you note that they only have +1 Soak armor, and inferior quality rifles (+1 Threat), and probably 4 wound threshold, so Soak 3, and thus a 7 point hit kills 1, and an 11 point kills 2... And that's before accounting for the lack of morale (part of the WP 1 and Pr1 is that they have just spent a year having their wills broken by psycho SNCOs and COMPNOR.

the game really needs a basic stormtrooper to fill the low level mook role the Imperial Army dudes are currently occupying.

There is one, they're right in the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook right along with all of the other low level mooks . Stuff like this is why Maelora keeps asking you if you actually play EoTE at all...

Personally, I like the stormtroopers as they are now. But I can scale them as the game goes on. To simulate a more elite stormtrooper, like a 501st, I could add the talents Adversary 1 and Deadly Accuracy and give them a boost die to their Perception checks for advanced helmet optics. It gives them a little more edge.

The Imperial Army as an entity distinct from Stormtroopers isn't going to show up anywhere else though, so the game really needs a basic stormtrooper to fill the low level mook role the Imperial Army dudes are currently occupying.

The game doesn't need it. The game works fine with IA being Mooks and stormtroopers being Slightly Better Mooks.

The AT-AT and AT-ST in ESB crews certainly don't look like Stormtroopers.

I would draw your attention to this piece of Rebels concept art,

Being a walker pilot. To me it looks like they have added a Stormtrooper style face mask so the good guys can shoot a bunch of them without feeling bad. And maybe to tie them a bit more in to the rest of the Stormtroopers.

The game doesn't need it. The game works fine with IA being Mooks and stormtroopers being Slightly Better Mooks.

Sure, but it isn't going to reflect the setting properly, especially once Rebels comes out and an 'Imperial Army' is no where to be seen.

IA features in both ESB (Battle of Hoth) and RotJ (Battle of Endor on the ground) [both movies and novels], both of which I consider about a million times more relevant to the game than the new show. Like, I don't get how you think a show that hasn't been released yet should matter at all to RPG decisions that are being made now.

Also your disingenuousness is showing again. Some IA branches used stormtrooper-like helmets in G-canon, without being stormtroopers. Pretty clear from the wiki page, art, etc. That IA is not near as iconic as stormtroopers isn't really relevant for their in-setting role. The setting is not being improperly reflected.

I don't think they should make something that they know will be invalidated by the next big bit of media to come out. They may as well incorporate any new Rebels information as and when it becomes available.

Clearly we can't know where they are going to go with all this new stuff, but we may as well work towards it and future proof things as much as possible.

the game really needs a basic stormtrooper to fill the low level mook role the Imperial Army dudes are currently occupying.

There is one, they're right in the Edge of the Empire Core Rulebook right along with all of the other low level mooks . Stuff like this is why Maelora keeps asking you if you actually play EoTE at all...

To be fair, Stormtroopers are fairly high end minions stat-wise.

To be fair, Stormtroopers are fairly high end minions stat-wise.

Which we now have confirmation does not properly reflect their role in the setting.

To be fair, Stormtroopers are fairly high end minions stat-wise.

Which we now have confirmation does not properly reflect their role in the setting.

No, we do not.

Disney is notorious for getting their directors to create hype about the properties, even to the point of actually spreading disinformation.

Joss said some very easily misinterpreted things about Avengers and Agents of Shield... intentionally... so as to raise fan awareness by arousing nerd rage. He's a nerd himself, and knows how to wield nerd rage as a weapon to raise fanbase awareness.

You've become Filoni's propaganda patsy. Congratulations on failing that discipline roll.

No! Thats not true! Thats impossible!

Search your feelings. You know it to be true.

Erik what is this if not a member of the, "Imperial Army". It sure isn't a Stormtrooper.

Vehicle crewmen.

I dunno. You can defend the idea of an 'imperial army' now, but once there are a couple of seasons of Rebels with no evidence that the Empire have any ground troops other than Stormtroopers its not really going to fly.

Vehicle crewmen.

I dunno. You can defend the idea of an 'imperial army' now, but once there are a couple of seasons of Rebels with no evidence that the Empire have any ground troops other than Stormtroopers its not really going to fly.

You are arguing those are Stormtrooper vehicle crewmen???

And again, since you aren't seeming to listen to past posts, why are you dismissing all of the earlier instances of Imperial Army suggestions because you think some new story, amongst the thousands out there, might not feature an Imperial Army mook? Where's the logic? Even if there are no Imperial soldiers in yet another Star Wars cartoon running around in the OD green outfits most of us contribute to the Imperial Army, how does that mean they do not exist? If we don't see any Ewoks in Rebels do some of us get to cheer that Star Wars canon has finally retconned the furballs out of existance even if we did see them, like the Imperial Army crewmen, upon Endor in an actual movie?

Yep, that's the logic you are using.

There's no point in trying to convince him of anything. As the fanboi that he is, he lives in his own virtual world. He wants to believe that Disney is going to to make these broad sweeping changes and he has every right. Personally I doubt any of it will happen the way he thinks. It will just be another cartoon much like The Clone Wars or Droids and will have just about as much relevance.

The reality, though, is that Disney may model the Rebels cartoon to appeal to the lowest common denominator in hopes to reach a broader audience. Which would be a shame. The two seasons of Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes were great with fun action and stories that carried over and that appealed to kids and adults. But with the success of The Avengers movie it was cancelled and replaced with Avengers Assemble , something I have not heard one good thing about. Single episode stories and flat characters. So only time will tell how Rebels will be.

You are arguing those are Stormtrooper vehicle crewmen???

I suspect they are going to go with the idea that a Stormtrooper is just what an Imperial ground trooper is called, and there is no concept of a separate 'stormtrooper corps'. So TIE Pilots pilot TIES, Walker Pilots drive walkers and Stormtroopers are the infantry. Which, you will note, is a perfectly valid interpretation of what we see in the movies.

You are arguing those are Stormtrooper vehicle crewmen???

I suspect they are going to go with the idea that a Stormtrooper is just what an Imperial ground trooper is called, and there is no concept of a separate 'stormtrooper corps'. So TIE Pilots pilot TIES, Walker Pilots drive walkers and Stormtroopers are the infantry. Which, you will note, is a perfectly valid interpretation of what we see in the movies.

Or there is also an Imperial Army and Stormtroopers are an elite corps. Which, you will note, is a perfectly valid interpretation of what we see in the movies . It's also the way the Star Wars mythos sans ErikB's interpretation has been viewing it for years. I think you were already directed to Wookiepedia, but here is some reading for you:

Imperial Military "The Imperial Military was considered a massive organization, with tens of trillions of regular army soldiers, trillions of fleet crew, and a sizable force of stormtroopers"

Imperial Army "Army units were often reinforced by stormtroopers, although the command structure for the two organizations remained separate."

Imperial Army Trooper "Imperial Army troopers were the standard infantry of the Imperial Army and the most common soldiers of the Galactic Empire...."

Imperial Navy Trooper Wait, what are these guys that we see repeatedly in the movies? Stormtroopers too in an alternate light duty uniform? Nope, more non-Stormtrooper mooks to pick from.

Imperial Army Trooper This one contains the picture I used above from Return of the Jedi .

Please note all of the source links under, "Appearances" in my links above. Would you discount all of those sources of varying levels of canon (ranging from games to theatrical releases) for your new, single, as yet purely speculative, source?

Lucasdisney don't care what the EU says man. If there is an Imperial Army and Stormtroopers are an elite corps why are we never going to see any Imperial army guys in Rebels and why are Stormtroopers doing all the standing around guarding stuff?