Nor does Luke and Leia being revealed later to be siblings even contradict, much less retcon, anything about Episode V at all ... much less the act itself of Leia kissing Luke.

It's like claiming like the big reveal of Vader being Luke's biological father was somehow was a " right to have a better idea " retcon of Episode IV.

And the dude in the clip is showing clear signs of movie style unwilling mind control.

Given how not-Vader Anakin is RIGHT THERE IN THE SCENE, it's clear that's not occurring during Order 66. I don't know the context of that clip or whether Dogma is under mind control, but it's irrelevant to the discussion of the nature of the Emergency Orders.

If you want your opinions taken seriously, try not to be completely disingenuous with your presentation of "evidence."

Still, a non-Fallen Jedi Master ordered the creation of a template army of slaves without the Republic's knowledge, conscripted from before birth with no choice not to serve. There were Jedi who left the Order over this when pressed to command the GAR . I'm still waiting to see your spin on that, because cloning slaves and conscripting child soldiers is an evil act. My guess is because you've ignored that reference continually, you have no rationalization for that explicitly evil act and are just hoping nobody notices, or you have some batshit crazy justification for it. Like, idk, I enjoy differing points of view, but most of what I see from you is consistent threadcrapping.

Given how not-Vader Anakin is RIGHT THERE IN THE SCENE, it's clear that's not occurring during Order 66.

I submit that that is clearly the order 66 mind control triggering early. Actual order 66 will involve all of the clones looking dazed, staggering around, mumbling 'good soldiers follow orders' and unwillingly raising their blasters on the Jedi.

Betcha.

And see if you can get Lucasdisney to go for a Luke/Leia incest story or see how quickly they try to change the conversation if someone tries to comment on how making an army of clones to fight your wars might be seen as a less than ethical thing to do.

I'll wait.

Seriously folks, just put ErikB on your ignore lists. If you stop feeding the troll, he'll eventually go away and bother some other forum. All you're doing by responding to his threadcrapping is encouraging him to keep doing it.

You guys do realise I started this thread right?

Given how not-Vader Anakin is RIGHT THERE IN THE SCENE, it's clear that's not occurring during Order 66.

I submit that that is clearly the order 66 mind control triggering early. Actual order 66 will involve all of the clones looking dazed, staggering around, mumbling 'good soldiers follow orders' and unwillingly raising their blasters on the Jedi.

Except we've seen Order 66 and it didn't go down like that.

It was an executive order. They're programmed to follow orders, but not specifically to kill Jedi. This isn't EU, this is what Lucas has said.

Could it change? Maybe, but it seems unlikely to me since they're going the "Clones are too independent and obviously not programmed killing machines like Palpatine wants" route with Rebels.

Given how not-Vader Anakin is RIGHT THERE IN THE SCENE, it's clear that's not occurring during Order 66.

I submit that that is clearly the order 66 mind control triggering early. Actual order 66 will involve all of the clones looking dazed, staggering around, mumbling 'good soldiers follow orders' and unwillingly raising their blasters on the Jedi.

(1) Present proof it's triggering early? Oh wait lol u got none at this moment.

(2) Order 66 already happened in "superior canon" aka G-canon in Episode III. Keep trying and keep ignoring the other points, bro, it's not lost on me nor on anyone else.

Except we've seen Order 66 and it didn't go down like that.

Oh I don't know. We can't see under their helmets. We can't see the emotional turmoil as they struggle against their implanted programming. We can't see the individualistic and free willed clones we know and love turn in to glassy eyed automata at the mention of their trigger phrase. As far as Lucas changing his mind goes this isn't up there with having Obi-Wan come back as a ghost to explain to the audience why nothing he told Luke in the first movie was actually true.

Except we saw the confusion and turmoil of Dogma, who was wearing a helmet in that linked clip, before he even took the helmet off. It was clearly conveyed in body language. Body language which was not at all present in the G-canon execution of Order 66.

Well it is a retcon. RotS was made before they fleshed out the clones and knew people like them, so at that point the story probably was that the clones were working for Palpatine all along. I'm just saying that as Star Wars retcons go it isn't an enormous one.

Yeah... Especially where it comes to imagined ones it is huge!

But in all seriousness, the warning the moderators obviously gave you didn't really change anything did it?

You just followed the boards without typing "the usual" for a week (you do know this shows up on the bottom of the page right?) and then it's back to square one...

Anyone else like the pic on page 4 of the latest update ?

Personally, I like the stormtroopers as they are now. But I can scale them as the game goes on. To simulate a more elite stormtrooper, like a 501st, I could add the talents Adversary 1 and Deadly Accuracy and give them a boost die to their Perception checks for advanced helmet optics. It gives them a little more edge.

I like the ROTS novelisation of the clones. Some of them might like the Jedi, but they're good soldiers and do what they were ultimately designed for.

Gotta love how Cody says to himself after receiving his transmission, "Couldn't have been given the order before I gave him back his lightsaber?" (or something to that effect).

I like this new direction. Clones who eventually overcome their programming and choose their own destiny.

Or something. Not quite sure where they are gonna go with this but I think I like the places it seems to be heading.

If every problem in the setting is traced back to "dark side bull" then dealing with dark side bull becomes a constant occurrence and a huge cliche instead of a horrifying surprise. That's not the direction I favor Star Wars going in, or rather continuing to go in since this has been the direction of the setting for a long while now.

One thing the prequels did right was point out how the Sith have been in hiding for so long that the Jedi have actually grown rather lax in keeping watch for them. Contrast with the EU where virtually every writer has a Dark Side Villain of the Week (AKA Villain of this 7-book Series). Sure the Sith were behind things, but in-setting it felt new and novel, and it was, because this was the first time in centuries in-setting that the Sith had been as active as they were.

I wasn't necessarily happy with how the Vong were done, but at least it was a new antagonistic thing from a new and different point of view rather than Nasty Dark Side User/Power/Thing Created For This Book #75. Ditto with how Thrawn was done; while those books involved the Force to a degree, you weren't getting constant saturation with Some Dark Side Guy who just now decided to cackle evilly and appear on the scene.

So by liking the "new direction" you appear to be pretty conservative in keeping the setting doing the same old same old same old, except the Bad Guy has a new name but is ultimately pretty much the same. This mindset doesn't interest me in the least. Also lol at it being a new direction, it's not, it's just applying a setting-wide cliche to all the instances where that trope had fortunately been averted.

To be honest, the only thing so far that I dislike about Star Wars, and would never use, was the Vong. I've never looked into Krayt's Empire, so I couldn't comment on that.

@Shakespearian_Soldier: Or if they like the Jedi in question... they'll try to make it quick and painless... hence Aayla Secura getting repeatedly shot in the back 'just to be sure'.

Krayt's Empire is a... curious situation, but its lineage is essentially the One Sith faction grafting itself onto the existing Empire, and explicitly separate from that of the Order of the Sith Lords depicted in the movie... which, at one point, leads to two Sith holocrons not only shunning Darth Krayt but not even bothering to translate what Darth Nihilus said. I will note though that after its downfall, Darth Nihl had the One Sith move (back) to the 'hide and infiltrate' mode that the 'Rule of Two' Sith had done.

To be honest, the only thing so far that I dislike about Star Wars, and would never use, was the Vong. I've never looked into Krayt's Empire, so I couldn't comment on that.

I thought the Legacy comics were fantastic. If you at least tolerate the idea of Vong in your star wars, then you should check them out. The YV is only background and used to set up the plot, the rest is pretty gritty with a nice dark tinge.

I can also recommend Volume 2 of Legacy , it's a good ol' Edge of the Empire -style story involving a junk dealer who one day comes across a droid in her junkyard with a lightsaber inside, and the adventures that she has after trying to pawn off a lightsaber ...

The Legacy comics were very enjoyable. They combined elements of the Rebellion Era with the Old Republic mixed in with some nice Fringe stuff. So you had bounty hunters, soldiers, jedi, sith all playing together. Not to mention the Imperial Knights, Force users with lightsabers that were neither jedi or sith, but more neutral when it came to using the Force. All in all I enjoyed many of the comcepts put forth.

I must admit, of all the many things I loathe about the EU, the Vong are among the worst.

They seem to have stumbled out of some horrible anime/manga and really don't 'feel' anything like Star Wars.

I used them as the reason for the Jedi Exodus (that replaced Order 66 in my game) - the Sith and Jedi combined forces to exterminate them to the very last Vong, so their horrible emo angst will never infect our games...

(Though from what mouthymerc says, the Legacy thing sounds very much like our setting....)

Gotta vouch for Legacy. I've shunned everything EU since reading Rogue Planet, but Legacy is a delightful experience - narratively, stylistically, and, uh... Star Warsistically.

The Sith can tend to get a bit 'Marilyn Manson' in the comic for my tastes, but that only makes me dislike them all the more (which is what we're supposed to do, after all...)

I actually don't mind the idea of the Yuuzhan Vong. The problem was that there was apparently a misconception about them by one of the writers that every single vong domain was a pain worshiping cult. It was supposed to be the ONE domain, not everyone. The Yuuzhan Vong were an attempted fix to something that was wrong with Star Wars - the overpowering of the Jedi/Force users, and the fact that NOTHING was ever a challenge to any of the main characters. Reading the books you knew that Luke, Han, Leia and company would be fine. The New Jedi Order changed that. The vong were just too many things all rolled into one. Biotech, pain-worshiping and null in the force. If they were any one of those things people wouldn't have a problem. Heck, even two would be fine. But all three, too much. I tend to, if I use vong in my later era games, write them as the force null and biotech with only Domain Shai being the S&M freaks.

The legacy comics ARE great though. Imperial Knights all the way. You have alien stormtroopers, the Fel Dynasty empire is NOT evil. Sadly the villain are Sith.. but, you take the good you take the bad and there you have... the facts of life.

Imperial Knights all the way.

+1 to this.