Well, speaking as someone who want to play a rebel, I am hoping that they either nerf Totally Games' sue fighter or provide a rebel sue to fly against it.

have you actually read the AoR stats for the Tie-D?

have you actually read the AoR stats for the Tie-D?

Well yes, and as someone who wants to play rebels I am pretty happy with it.

On the other hand, if for some reason they thought it a good idea to put it back to being a total sue who comes in beats Darth Vader in a fight, steals Leia from Han and outflies Luke in a race through beggars canyon, they could at least have the decency to add a rebel equivalent so when the Imp fanboy picks a TIE defender w/ Marek Steele, the rebel player can choose a Krayt X-Wing with Wedge Antilles and make a game of it.

have you actually read the AoR stats for the Tie-D?

Is this to me or ErikB? Can't tell because I've got ErikB on ignore, sorry.

Then again, my take is there's nothing untoward about stealing an enemy prototype fighter... hell, that's right up the alley for a "Wraith Squadron"-style or a "Rebel Assault" style campaign.

have you actually read the AoR stats for the Tie-D?

Well yes, and as someone who wants to play rebels I am pretty happy with it.

On the other hand, if for some reason they thought it a good idea to put it back to being a total sue who comes in beats Darth Vader in a fight, steals Leia from Han and outflies Luke in a race through beggars canyon, they could at least have the decency to add a rebel equivalent so when the Imp fanboy picks a TIE defender w/ Marek Steele, the rebel player can choose a Krayt X-Wing with Wedge Antilles and make a game of it.

You do realize that this isn't a competitive game like X-wing right? The PCs are a group working together against plots set up by the GM. You also aren't restricted to ships by faction. If, as a rebel, you want to fly a Tie Defender just plan a daring raid with the goal of stealing a few. And even if you don't the odds of you facing an equal number of PC level foes all flying "mary-sue" fighters is unlikely unless your GM is a jerk, in which case find a new GM. You wouldn't stick with a GM in D&D who sent a five person party against five dragons would you? Of course not.

Anybody else think that ErikB's new rebel fighter should be the new soapbox class fighter, with quad-linked trolling cannon?

Yeah, I am the only person in the world with strong opinions about Star Wars.

--

You also aren't restricted to ships by faction. If, as a rebel, you want to fly a Tie Defender just plan a daring raid with the goal of stealing a few.

I think people generally find hardware designed and built by their own faction more pleasing than something brought in from outside. Or at least like to have their own stamp put on it.

If the rebels capture a suefighter, strip out its sue powers and retrofit them in to an X-Wing to make a sue-wing with even better performance we are getting somewhere.

The other reason why the rebels shouldn't have a Tie Defender level of fighter? Where do they get the resources to put one together? Defenders cost a ton of cash, took a vast galaxy spanning R&D department to develop, and generally required way more assets than a rag-tag military operation can pull together. Hell, the Empire could only afford to field a few of the things, and they can piss away money left, right and center.

So the rebels having an expensive, asset intensive fighter is pretty much counter to their mission statement.

I would remind you that the Alliance has a far more effective R&D infrastructure than the Empire. In particular, they have all the non-human scientists and engineers who have fled the Empire to avoid being sent to the camps, but also those humans driven in to the hands of the alliance by the anti-intellectual policies of the New Order.

As such, the Empire has the money, but the Alliance has the talent.

Also, the Alliance are hot-roders, and therefore the Maker (lucas) smiles upon them. Our model is the legendary AC Cobra. By fitting an enormously powerful American engine in to a lightweight British sports car, Carroll Shelby was able to create a monster that blew away the dainty European efforts of the time through shear brute force.

Who will win, the plucky hod roders with heart or the soulless and arrogant corporate racing team?

The other reason why the rebels shouldn't have a Tie Defender level of fighter? Where do they get the resources to put one together? Defenders cost a ton of cash, took a vast galaxy spanning R&D department to develop, and generally required way more assets than a rag-tag military operation can pull together. Hell, the Empire could only afford to field a few of the things, and they can piss away money left, right and center.

So the rebels having an expensive, asset intensive fighter is pretty much counter to their mission statement.

Hell, you can look at the Rebels' lack of such a money pit as why they long-run won... that is to say, on the one hand, it's the nominal best dogfighter in the Galactic Civil War era, but on the other hand the Empire lost at Endor anyway , so the Rebels were the ones who got their money's worth.

(This is not "the Empire could have won if they'd fielded enough TIE Defenders at Endor," it's "the Empire couldn't have fielded enough TIE Defenders at Endor to turn the tide.")

I would submit that the status of best dogfighter is really, really important, hence this discussion.

For that matter I would remind you that you enjoy discovering legends are not all they are made out to be and find power fantasy juvenile, and would therefore clearly enjoy star wars more if the f*cking sue fighter was nerfed out of existence.

By the way, Shakespearian_Soldier, Vonpenguin, That Blasted Samophlange, I'd like to invite you to check out and weigh in on if Yoshiyahu, lightofhand and I have a consistent idea going here . I look forward to your feedback!

The jack-of-all-trades fighter that's at every fight that counted is better than the nominal best dogfighter in any furball that it actually shows up to ... but otherwise is also the Galaxy's top hangar queen.

People only care about the battles that happen yknow.

You don't play out the ones that don't. And so the sue fighter will turn up for every game.

I am more than happy for the rebel sue to be just as impractical overall. But all anyone cares about is the showdown when the best rebel pilot in the best rebel ship takes on the best imperial pilot in the best imperial ship.

Yeah, I am the only person in the world with strong opinions about Star Wars.

If you'd stop with the trolling, people might stop and listen to you.

Very few of us see a need for the Rebels to have a response to a limited run fighter which was not deployed in any significant numbers, and could be beaten by skill and experience.

Plus, the T65 is essentially a 2-seat fighter - Pilot and astromech.

We don't know just what a socketed astromech can do - but I'm fairly certain it includes piloting, slicing, jamming, and damage control. (Ep III - R4 pilots Obi-Wan's fighter from its socket. Ep IV, R2 repais damage to Luke's X-Wing.)

But, unless they nerf Astromechs, the socket is far more valuable than the slight buffs the TIE/D has over the T-65B.

Very few of us see a need for the Rebels to have a response to a limited run fighter which was not deployed in any significant numbers

Ach, dude, stick an unnerfed TIE/sue in a game and 90% of the battles will be between sues and whatever the most awesome rebel ship is with a sulking rebel player.

I suspect this is why the sue hasn't shown up in the X-Wing miniatures game despite the obvious raging stiffy the empire fanboys have for it, and why the stats in the AoR beta are what they are.

So like I say, nerfed TIE/sue or Rebel Sue - pick your poison.

Hell, by the above paradigm you can look at the BTL-S3 Y-wing being essentially a three -seater, which is a favorable way to be under the EotE/AoR rules (if you can occupy all three stations, then that's three characters taking actions).

Do you wanna fly one?

Apparently ErikB plays games where the heroes are fighting against cardboard cutouts with toy blasters that can't add 2 and 2 together.

Give me villains who are competent and highly equipped. It just makes me more badass when I shoot them down.

Apparently ErikB plays games where the heroes are fighting against cardboard cutouts with toy blasters that can't add 2 and 2 together.

Give me villains who are competent and highly equipped. It just makes me more badass when I shoot them down.

He's indicated in multiple threads that " fighting against cardboard cutouts with toy blasters that can't add 2 and 2 together " is what Star Wars means to him (well, that and KOTOR/TOR/Clone Wars-without-"The" Jedi, as Donovan Morningfire pointed before re: the EotE beta*), and his imagination of what 'all' Rebel players want, even if the FFG designers disagreed in how they built the PC-rules/NPCs that we've already seen in both EotE and the AoR... to say nothing of the "better for the PCs to run than fight" stormtroopers in the Beginner's Game!

Funny thing is, considering that NPCs aren't beholden to all of the same rules as PCs when it comes to character generation and equipment (you can for example assume that the Empire has the resources with which to ensure that an attachment has whatever modifications the GM wants, i.e. modify ALL THE THINGS ), the "highly equipped" part is how you can build the villains... after all, catch 'em without damaging the gear, and it becomes the players' gear... just as lethal against the enemies as it could have been against the players.

* It was nerdrage about not getting playable Jedi in EotE... actually, wait, no, I looked back further to other topics , and I'm... I'm goddamned smiling . Even before we watch him try to play 1984... except he's Big Brother and anyone who disagrees with him is the dissidents . (Which, admittedly, is what I think of the tone of The Price of Freedom as well.)

By the way, Shakespearian_Soldier, Vonpenguin, That Blasted Samophlange, I'd like to invite you to check out and weigh in on if Yoshiyahu, lightofhand and I have a consistent idea going here . I look forward to your feedback!

Count me in, mucker!

He's indicated in multiple threads that " fighting against cardboard cutouts with toy blasters that can't add 2 and 2 together " is what Star Wars means to him

Given that I think you want to play uber stormtroopers gunning down hapless rebel terrorists like Navy SEALS in Zero Dark Thirty, and the Space Red Baron in his anime uberfighter gunning down hapless rebel pilots in droves I think that is what it means to you as well, only from the other side.

Ooooh... there's a campaign idea. Heh heh.

Ooooh... there's a campaign idea. Heh heh.

It is pretty blatant that that is what you empire fanboys want to play.

Perhaps it is. But you know what, Erik? I serve my country, and sacrifice a hell of a lot of stuff in order to do so - including most of my personal time. So if I want to spend what little "me time" I DO have playing a game about Imperials smacking the crap into Rebels, then I'll do so; if I want to play a game where the heroes are the Rebels but where the Imperials aren't 100%, unconditionally evil beings with no layers of complexity, then I'll do so; if I want to run a campaign where there are some Imperials who are making a genuine effort to make the galaxy a better, brighter place, despite being beholden to an evil despot, then I'll do so. And I'll be damned if some mong-child is going to tell me I can't, or shouldn't, play the game the way I want to play it.

Rant over. Now back to gunning down those Rebels.

Thats fine and all but trying to pretend having uber stormtroopers and OP enemy superfighters will make playing rebels more fun when really you want to play AS the uber stormtroopers and enemy aces risks a whole bunch of people who didn't get the memo wasting their me time turning up to a game where they play space taliban getting curb stomped by space USMC.