I am clearly jealous that the Rebels never got their late game uberfighter to match the TIE Defender. This needs fixing.

As you all know, the TIE Defender first appeared in the TIE Fighter video game, sequel to the earlier X-Wing video game. It appeared late in the game, as a super prototype in the best anime tradition.

However in X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter, the next game in the series which added multiplayer, the TIE Defender was omitted, save for this note in the craft catalogue -

Advanced space superiority fighter. This craft is too powerful to be put in this simulation. Dream on, fanboy!

The fanboys, naturally did dream on and the TIE Defender has lived on, even getting a lego set which is the greatest distinction anything can aspire to.

Which is fine and all, but the rebels never got their equivalent craft! This oversight needs to be rectified.

I would suggest as an upgrade to the X-Wing.

Consider the Spitfire.

The mark Ia Spitfire was fitted with a 1,030hp Rolls Royce Merlin XII engine and had a top speed of 367mph.

But they didn't stop there. Improvements and upgrades were constantly added in an attempt to provide pilots with planes that matched or outperformed their enemies. More powerful engines, bigger guns, metal control surfaces to replace the fabric covered originals, better gunsights, armour plating, self sealing fuel tanks, better radios all brought in to service as quickly as possible to give pilots the best possible chance against their enemies.

A mark XIVe spitfire had a 2,050hp Griffon 65 engine and a top speed of 448mph. And 2 20mm cannon and 2 .5 machine guns to replace the 8 rifle calibre machine guns of the mark 1.

So when the TIE Defender appeared on the scene, the famous Incom design team behind the X-Wing began a crash program to provide their pilots with a craft with equivalent performance.

All in all, this stuff is serious business. You can easily start fights on any plane message boards by asking what the best fighter is. People care about this stuff way more than they should.

I care about this stuff way more than I should.

I think the Spitfire analogy is particularly fitting because of how far the X-wing's operational lifespan was; IIRC they were still using upgraded versions of it well into 40 ABY.

However, I don't think the Rebellion would really have the means (Or the desire) to invest so heavily into a program to rival the Defenders; for one there's a reason so few were ever built (They're hideously expensive as starfighters IIRC), and second after seeing how limited their numbers (And therefore effectiveness) were I really doubt the Rebellion would deem them enough of a threat to justify expending millions of credits on a research or retrofitting program.

I would remind you that the Alliance has a far more effective R&D infrastructure than the Empire. In particular, they have all the non-human scientists and engineers who have fled the Empire to avoid being sent to the camps, but also those humans driven in to the hands of the alliance by the anti-intellectual policies of the New Order.

As such, the Empire has the money, but the Alliance has the talent.

Also, the Alliance are hot-roders, and therefore the Maker (lucas) smiles upon them. Our model is the legendary AC Cobra. By fitting an enormously powerful American engine in to a lightweight British sports car, Carroll Shelby was able to create a monster that blew away the dainty European efforts of the time through shear brute force.

So it is with the expensive, finicky hangar queen that is the TIE Defender and the brutally powerful and difficult to fly Krayt X-Wing

So clearly the TIE Defender program didn't sink the Alliance due to the actions of the PCs.

Things to do:-

-Extract engineers and their families from the clutches of the Empire.

-Protect said engineers while they undertake a crash program to create a fighter to counter the TIE defenders

-Recruit an all star team of the best pilots in the alliance

-Learn how to get the most out of the brutally powerful but difficult and dangerous to fly prototype fighters created by the crash program.

-Convince the Empire to abandon the Defender project by defeating their prototypes in a prototype on prototype battle royale for the fate of the galaxy.

That sounds like... well a lot what happened in the TIE Fighter series actually. Just replace "Empire" with "Renegades" and "Rebels" with "Empire."

But that just means you need to sit down and write an adventure series for your players, not that FFG needs to introduce yet another another super-fighter/weapon/battleship/battlestation/hamsandwich into the universe.

Man I miss the whole X-wing/TIE Fighter series.

I would note that with a Rebel superfighter prototype to provide a good match up, TIE Defender fans might find they could break out their ships without everyone else crying CHEEEEEEESSSSSEEEE!!!!!!!!

The TIE Defender was the response to the alliance's skilled pilots and superior craft.

However, the X-Wing is still a better ship by most counts. I don't see that the game needs an "equivalent" other than the X-Wing, which is the in-universe equivalent. What Star Wars ship is better suited to matching the Defender?

Consider also that the Defender wasn't even developed until right before the Battle of Endor. After that battle, we saw lots of incremental improvements to the X-Wing line. There is healthy amount of in-universe technology progression, which means that ships continue to get better.

The TIE Defender was the response to the alliance's skilled pilots and superior craft.

Yes. So what was the Alliance's response to the response? How did they intend to ensure they kept their edge?

What Star Wars ship is better suited to matching the Defender?

This is the thing. The matchup tiers are something like

TIE Fighter -> Z-95

TIE Advanced/Avenger -> X-Wing

TIE Defender -> ?

The rebels never got their tier 3 ship.

The TIE Defender was the response to the alliance's skilled pilots and superior craft.

Yes. So what was the Alliance's response to the response? How did they intend to ensure they kept their edge?

I believe I answered that later in the post that you just quoted.

The later T-65C and T-65D models are significant incremental improvements. I would expect them in a splat book. (The Beta Book has the T-65B.)

I don't think there needs to be an additional ship for the rebels. Looking at the stats, aside from better handling, ion cannons and concussion missile luancher (instead of proton torpedo launcher) there isn't that much difference between them. In fact the X-wing is faster both in real space and in hyperspace.

Ignoring all the in game and in universe issues of introducing a new super fighter, I suspect that FFGs contract with lucasfilm probably forbids going this far off the reservation...

I don't think there needs to be an additional ship for the rebels. Looking at the stats, aside from better handling, ion cannons and concussion missile luancher (instead of proton torpedo launcher) there isn't that much difference between them. In fact the X-wing is faster both in real space and in hyperspace.

Which itself -- X-wing being faster -- is a divergence from canon too...

Speaking as an Empire fanboy, would you prefer the Defender stay in its nerfed state, or be returned to its status as a super prototype along side a Rebel equivalent to fight it?

I am clearly jealous that the Rebels never got their late game uberfighter to match the TIE Defender. This needs fixing.

Oh god, please no. It was fun in TIE Fighter, but we need that overpowered macguffin in real star wars as much as we need that dude from the Force Unleashed. They badly need to dial the stats back on that ship if they bring it into the game.

The problem with The Force Unleashed is that it felt like "what would have happened if Star Wars had been made in the 2000's"... thank gosh for the 70's!

P.S. Any canon source for the TIE/D Defender having only 4 Speed and +2 Handling?

The problem with The Force Unleashed is that it felt like "what would have happened if Star Wars had been made in the 2000's"... thank gosh for the 70's!

The Force Unleashed is more like Star Wars if it was was written by a 13 year old. "Yeah, so this guy, he can kick Darth Vader's ass and he's powerful. And he rides a TYRANNOSAURUS REX. A Tyrannosaurus Rex that has missile launchers. . . that shoot other dinosaurs! Wait - it shoots NINJA DINOSAURS! And the T-Rex is on FIRE! And then some pirates show up in their time machine and they fight with Kung-Fu. And the pirates are on fire too. Yeah, that's AWESOME!"

The problem with The Force Unleashed is that it felt like "what would have happened if Star Wars had been made in the 2000's"... thank gosh for the 70's!

The Force Unleashed is more like Star Wars if it was was written by a 13 year old. "Yeah, so this guy, he can kick Darth Vader's ass and he's powerful. And he rides a TYRANNOSAURUS REX. A Tyrannosaurus Rex that has missile launchers. . . that shoot other dinosaurs! Wait - it shoots NINJA DINOSAURS! And the T-Rex is on FIRE! And then some pirates show up in their time machine and they fight with Kung-Fu. And the pirates are on fire too. Yeah, that's AWESOME!"

Wasn't George Lucas behind that one? Considering that, the prequels -- and what I've heard about The Star Wars (the version that made it into comic book form this year) -- all I can say is "thank gosh for editing". It'll be a pity if the original trilogy proves to actually be the outlier as far as Star Wars official content quality...

The problem with The Force Unleashed is that it felt like "what would have happened if Star Wars had been made in the 2000's"... thank gosh for the 70's!

The Force Unleashed is more like Star Wars if it was was written by a 13 year old. "Yeah, so this guy, he can kick Darth Vader's ass and he's powerful. And he rides a TYRANNOSAURUS REX. A Tyrannosaurus Rex that has missile launchers. . . that shoot other dinosaurs! Wait - it shoots NINJA DINOSAURS! And the T-Rex is on FIRE! And then some pirates show up in their time machine and they fight with Kung-Fu. And the pirates are on fire too. Yeah, that's AWESOME!"

Wasn't George Lucas behind that one? Considering that, the prequels -- and what I've heard about The Star Wars (the version that made it into comic book form this year) -- all I can say is "thank gosh for editing". It'll be a pity if the original trilogy proves to actually be the outlier as far as Star Wars official content quality...

While the force unleashed story is decent and not too disrespectful of existing canon in a vague outline the stuff they allowed Starkiller to do for the purpose of "It's a video game i's got to be AWESOME!" was way too far.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was from Lucas though. The man is creative but really has no filter and needs someone stand there and shift the good ideas from the bad and keep him from being distracted by the shiny new technologies. Unfortunately he's no such a big name that he can afford to not listen. Thank god he's only a consultant on the new movies.

As for the Defender, isn't the E-wing it's "faction mirror"? Though it didn't go into production until the new republic was well established. I think for the purpose of this game an equivalent isn't needed. Players can always try and steal a few if they want them that badly and are willing to catch that much heat. Honestly I'm surprised I've never heard of an EU situation that had rebels flying ties for non-infiltration reasons. You'd think the relatively strapped for cash rebels would at least paint a handful of them purple and strap a shield generator to the bottom.

And there's always jury-rigged and tinkerer talents for those that want a sweet fighter.

I kinda think Star Wars was Lucas watching The Battle of Britain and The Dambusters and thinking - you know what would make this more awesome? If it was IN SPACE and they shot LASERS and blew up a MOON SIZED BATTLESTATION instead of a dam. Or watching a samurai movie and thinking that it would be improved by laser swords and psychic powers.

He was, of course, entirely correct.

* Although one could mod the hell out of the R7 to support X-wings or Y-wings, and later E-wing models could support R2s and R5s.

The Rebel answer to the Tie Defender is for the worthless overpowered piece of crap to be expunged from Star Wars canon completely.

Or, you could look at the rules in AoR and realize that they pretty well nerfed it. It is just a pretty standard assault fighter now.

Tie Defender... worthless overpowered piece of crap

Don't be like that. You will hurt poor Chortles' feelings.

Anyway, the balance of power shifting as one side brings a new model online, and then it shifting again as the other side counters with their own is a big part of air combat stories.

The Rebel answer to the Tie Defender is for the worthless overpowered piece of crap to be expunged from Star Wars canon completely.

Only if the Mandalorians are expunged with it! Actually, take the whole of KOTOR/TOR (aka "blame them for "ErikB and Jedi") with them and we're talkin'... and throw in everything The Force Unleashed with all of the above and you've got yourself a deal.

P.S. ErikB trying to throw shade at me, still funny considering how this thread got started and his self-admitted jealousies.

The TIE Defender was developed in the "TIE fighter" game as a super fighter. Which you counter with the Missle boat, and it's SLAM system.

Games are highly unreliable sources of continuity.

But with that aside, the E-wing was the Pinnacle of New Republic Fighter superiority. Not to be confused with the K-wing