As per the Week 1 update, Invigorate now affects allies within short range.

Does anyone else think this should also potentially affect the character possessing the talent? It seems weird (at least to me) that that aspect of the talent was taken away.

It is odd to me that the character seems not to be applicable.

That's definitely how I'd run it in my games, currently.

If it is like in warhammer 3, actions, spells, talents and such that affected allies, where also applicable to the character.

I think it may be intentional that it doesn't affect the user, since that's already essentially covered under one of the Force powers.

I'd say it shouldn't affect the character, for a couple different reasons.

One, Force-users already get access to the Enhance power, which offers boosts to many of those skills that are tied to Agility and Brawn anyway (though only Brawl out of the combat ones, and probably with good reason). So by restricting it to allies and not the PC themselves, it probably circumvents the "what happens if I use Invigorate and Enhance on my Brawl checks?" issue that came up with the initial wording of Invigorate and Balance.

Two, it gives the Emergent a nice support talent that lets the PC help out the party, in contrast to most of the talents being "all about me" as they were initially. Since one of the general themes of AoR seems to be working as part of a greater whole, that adds a nice touch to the Emergent, that one of their capstone talents is about allowing one of their allies to be awesome, particularly if one is of a mind to play a support-based Force-user.

I like the idea behind the new Invigorate talent for the Force Sensitive Emergent... but I find that it is way out of balance and will get really overpowered has the jedi gains Force Rating.

There are really a handfull of talents that increase in effectiveness has your character gets stronger... like Anatomy Lessons where you spend a Triumph to add damage equal to your Intellect to one hit. So if you increase your intellect, that talent becomes more powerfull. The main difference between the two (Invigorate and Anatomy Lessons) is that the second is very specific and usefull from time to time, while the first is usable only once per encounter.

While I do agree that rolling dark side pips on the force dice will generate threat, I find this talent's setback to be too low for the power boost that it can generate.

I see this power has a kind of powered down version of JEDI BATTLE MEDITATION, I think we could just change it to this :
"Commit a force die : all allies within short range gain a Boost Dice and all opponents within short range gain a Setback Dice on all skill checks using the Brawn or Agility characteristics".

What do you guys think ??

I think the threat generated is more significant than you think. Threat cancels advantage. That's a pretty big penalty. Remember that at least one dark side pip is the most common result on the force die. That means if you want the force user's help you are taking a big risk that you loose that critical you were going for.

More dice means more chance of a dark side pip, not less. Throw three dice and get four dark side? It's a possibility, and not even a remote one at that. Light side pips grant successes, not advantage. Once you've succeeded, advantage becomes more valuable than more successes. That's a tricky thing to balance.

Honestly, I don't know where to put Invigorate on the power scale. It's weird at present.

Here's where how it works. You want to use your Invigorate when you would ordinarily have a crappy chance of success. So if your throwing two dice at a hard or better difficulty it makes some sense. You might get those extra successes to put you over the top and get what you want. The downside is that you will probably make your action less awesome or have a cost (in strain, blue dice for your foes, etc.).

The power gamer in me is inclined to say it's not worth 25 points. I would take a talent like Dedication every time with those 25 points, first. I like the idea that the designers are thinking in terms of party team work, but I'm not sure that the game balance is there yet.

I'd rather see something that says something like: "Use Invigorate once per encounter to restore 1 strain per light side point on a force roll to all allies within short range. Each ally in short range suffers one black die on his next action per dark side point."

That might actually be worth 25 points, and Invigorate is still is a teamwork talent. Your buddies need to take an action for which they have black dice mitigation. In other words it would make those talents that say ignore two black dice when making X checks a lot more valuable.

There are several character types that don't use Brawl or Agility very often which makes the current Invigorate nearly useless to them. Characters who are are really good at Brawl or Agility likewise don't get much use out of the current Invigorate rules because they are usually rolling more good dice than bad dice.

This is mostly brainstorming so let me know if I've completely missed something.

I think the threat generated is more significant than you think. Threat cancels advantage. That's a pretty big penalty. Remember that at least one dark side pip is the most common result on the force die. That means if you want the force user's help you are taking a big risk that you loose that critical you were going for.

More dice means more chance of a dark side pip, not less. Throw three dice and get four dark side? It's a possibility, and not even a remote one at that. Light side pips grant successes, not advantage. Once you've succeeded, advantage becomes more valuable than more successes. That's a tricky thing to balance.

Honestly, I don't know where to put Invigorate on the power scale. It's weird at present.

I see where you're going with this... and I agree that it is really difficult to evaluate. And like you said, dedicated fighters will probably have enough dices that they won't require the help from Invigorate.

I like your idea for Invigorate that restores strain to your teammates, but I think it's kind of a watered down version of the Politico talent "Inspiring Rhetoric". For 25xp, I really like that "Coordinated Assault", "Incite Rebellion" and "It's not that bad" talents... I think they really give something unique to their respective specializations.

I'm also mostly brainstorming...

Would that be good ??

Spend a destiny point has an incidental and allow an ally in short range to reroll, with an added Boost dice, a check he just made.

So what do you guys think ??

Inspiring Rhetoric is probably better (and definitely better if you add on the other talents), but I'm Ok with that. Politico is a dedicated support character while Force Sensitive Emergent is more of a dabbler.

I like your version too, however. Nice and simple.

Couldn't the Force User suffer strain and flip a DP to turn the Dark Side pips into Light Side pips?

Couldn't the Force User suffer strain and flip a DP to turn the Dark Side pips into Light Side pips?

Well, it's a talent, not a Force power activation roll, so I'm not sure that rule applies.

Couldn't the Force User suffer strain and flip a DP to turn the Dark Side pips into Light Side pips?

Well, it's a talent, not a Force power activation roll, so I'm not sure that rule applies.

I agree with Rikoshi. The destiny point option is pretty clear that it applies to activating Force Powers.

Spend a destiny point has an incidental and allow an ally in short range to reroll, with an added Boost dice, a check he just made.

No, I can't claim that I like it. It's better than it used to be, but that's like saying cow manure smells better than human feces. I can see how it will help in certain niche situations, but that's a far cry from saying it's useful.

Some things to think about.

• It's a 25 point power so it takes some time to build up to. By the time you've managed to get Invigorate how often will the party actually need to use it? It only helps with tasks you ordinarily don't have much chance at.
• Higher level parties usually have at least one member who can throw four happy dice at any given task. How useful is Invigorate to such a team?
• It only helps a limited subset of characters. The Diplomat who wants to make the shot, but doesn't care much about doing anything other than damage likes it. Everyone else finds it ho-hum.
• It's very limited. It only works once, so there can be fights over who gets to use it. It's not clear who controls its use either. Can another player trigger your use of Invigorate? How about if you are stunned? Can you make an ally use it? I'd guess that the answer is, "No," to all of the above, but it's just a guess.

I don't mind the ability to backfire, but if you are taking the risk of pain the reward ought to be a lot bigger.