I run an assassin character and to add a bit of coolness I decided to see if I could give him explosive throwing knifes the stats are as follows:

The throwing knife itself : (1d5) pen 2 (mono upgrade)

The explosive tip (1D10+3) pen 3 (special)

Special rule : If the throwing knife does 1 or more wounds to the opponent then the explosive charge that follows ignore armor and toughness,if the throwing knife doesn't cause any wounds then the explosive charge is resolved as above and both armor and toughness are deducted from the damage.

I made this up to be fairly fair I'm thinking the knives would cost about 50 thrones each if not more.

Let me know what you think.

it sucks

just use a grenade

The only weapon special quality that ignores Toughness is Toxic, AFAIR. Also, I can not imagine how you can embed in a throwing knife any significant explosive charge .

For coolness effect it is a sick weapon.

Not sure how well balanced it is however. Also maybe consider crafting it yourself (with some special skill you learnt from someone else (Ask your GM to fit it into your next campaign perhaps?)) as I don't see these being sold at your usual gun store.

Best people to speak to are the GM and the other players because in the end it will effect them if its too overpowered.

Its 40k, I'm sure they would have found a way to put an explosive inside a knife that has the power to do damage. I mean a hundred years ago in real life grenades were unheard of.

I would look at the rules for explosive tips for either crossbow or arrows..

Its 40k, I'm sure they would have found a way to put an explosive inside a knife that has the power to do damage. I mean a hundred years ago in real life grenades were unheard of.

Grenades have been around for over a thousand years.

Anyway a krak grenade will be more effective.

Can it be done? Certainly. It's no more bizzare than explosive-tipped arrows/bolts or a bolt round.

It's quite a cool idea - as noted, it's not going to have a value in thrones per se , as you're going to need to get them specially made for you.

The rules...well, Personally I don't see it as being too bad. 1D5R Pen 2 is a throwing knife, fair enough, and 1D10+3X isn't really that bad.

I would agree damage from an exploding 'lodged knife' should ignore armour (so the pen value you listed is irrelevant and can be ignored) but I'm not sure it should ignore toughness. A person's 'toughness' isn't a magic barrier at their skin that you've already bypassed; a tech-priest with massive internal augmetic reinforcement would and should take much less damage from a small charge going off in his body than a soft-and-squishy sixty-year-old scribe, just as he would with a bolt shell (which, when you think about it, is pretty much the same principle - a bullet which enters the body and then explodes).

Even Toxic doesn't ignore toughness - yes the damage isn't reduced by toughness, but there's a toughness check to avoid taking it at all.

Damage-wise seems about right. The charge shouldn't do as much damage as a bolt round, as the bolt round's 1D10+5 Tearing represents both the effect of the detonation and the effect of a 0.75 calibre, rocket-assisted armour-piercing bullet slamming into you. This shouldn't match that.

I would suggest the following:

Type: Thrown

Range: As per knife? Not sure if it would be heavier enough to affect things?

ROF: S/-/- - theoretically you could throw a 'spread' of knives if you were good enough but as soon as you include explosives in the mix I'd really suggest NOT doing that!

Damage: 1D5R

Pen: 2

If any damage is suffered by the target after deductions for armour and toughness, the charge embedded in the blade detonates. This causes a further 1D10+3 damage, which sufferes no deductions for armour.

I can see what you mean about the toughness and that there is no difference between a magos and elderly scribe in terms of when it does the explosive damage embedded, But if i threw the knife at an armored tech priest the chances are its not going to do a wound and therefore not get embeded so he will have both toughness and armor deducted from the blast. Also the reason the explosive knife itself has a pen when it ignores toughness is because if it doesn't get embeded (if the knife itself doesn't do a wound) then toughness and armor are deducted so the pen gives it a chance of doing some damage. Also 1D10+3 is good I will edit that now in the stats of the knife.

I was thinking of adding this special rule for called shots to the arm. If i make a called shot to the arm and the knife gets embeded and then the explosive damage alone does 7+ wounds the person has to take a toughness test challenging (+0) or drop the item in their hand. Let me know what you think or if this rule is too good ect.

So overall this is the knifes stats:

Damage: throwing knife 1d5 R pen 2 Explosive tip 1D10+3 X pen 3 S/-/- Range 5m (Special Mono Shockwave)

Special: If the throwing knife itself does 1 or more wounds to the target then the knife gets imbeded, the explosive damage that follows then ignores both toughness and armor, if the knife fails to do any wounds resolve the explosive damage as if it were a grenade both armor and toughness are deducted from the damage.

Shockwave: If the knife hits either arm and gets embeded and the explosive damage that followes does 7+ wounds the target must immediately take a toughness test (challenging +0) or drop whatever item is in his/her hand.

where you going to buy them

I was thinking of adding this special rule for called shots to the arm. If i make a called shot to the arm and the knife gets embeded and then the explosive damage alone does 7+ wounds the person has to take a toughness test challenging (+0) or drop the item in their hand. Let me know what you think or if this rule is too good ect.

Not really needed.

There's no real reason this should be more likely to make you drop what's in your hand than a heavy calibre gunshot, bolt round, sword cut, etc.

Most of the critical injury results to the arm make you drop anything you're holding anyway.

I can see what you mean about the toughness and that there is no difference between a magos and elderly scribe in terms of when it does the explosive damage embedded

Actually, I said the reverse. There is a difference. Armour has already been bypassed (by embedding the knife) but toughness hasn't; just because the knife has passed the skin doesn't mean you ignore toughness; a bionic-laden magos would take less damage from a charge going off under his skin than a scribe would (because of the bionics blocking the blast/shrapnel/etc). Hence, toughness should count (although armour shouldnt).

Lastly, if it doesn't embed into someone, a frag grenade is a bit powerful. Compare the weight of a grenade with the size of the explosive charge you're likely to have inside a knife blade.

Oh...just something that popped into my head writing this; if you wanted a shorter name for them, "Charge Knives" seems shorter to say than "Explosive Throwing Knives".

The only problem with counting the TB against the explosive damage is that the explosive damage itself then doesn't do much damage although I can see logic in what you are saying. Also thinking, I guess it would be better to use a krak grenade but I've always wanted to use throwing knifes but the stats for them are terrible. Considering this I will use throwing knifes made from stronger materials then normal and give them a poisonous quality, that way I can use throwing knifes that aren't terrible. They will be made of good materials and therefore expensive not to mention the poison. so I'm thinking of stats like this:

Damage: (1D10+2) pen 4 range : 5m Toxic 0.5kg (They are pretty much poisonous mono Fendrid razor disks with halve the range and 2 more damage.)

Cost : 150 thrones each.

Let me know what you think!

Forgot to mention they are retrievable but if they have wounded someone and the toxic has therefore affected them then they have to be refilled with poison or lose the toxic quality.

range : 5m Toxic 0.5kg

Take anything that weighs 0.5 kilograms . Try to hit something from a distance of 20 meters ( maximum distance for the base 5 range ) .

Stop. No. Just try to throw a knife which weighs 0.5 kilograms . BTW, this knife weighs 250 grams . I have this , I weighed it .

Also if you can get your GM to allow you to use the Throwing Knife from Only War - Hammer of Emperor. They become more fun and useful.

RT rules for Explosive Arrows, will work well for what you have come up with here. Take a penalty to hit for the extra wgt of the Explosive, change dam to Exp I would boost the dam to d10E straight up and if you want them mono 2 Pen and add a blast of 1m.

This way the knife will always do dam or distraction to your enemy. Also never use them in hand to hand, or take damage yourself.

and have you seen the Acreage Throwing Blades?

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/44135-acreage-throwing-knives/

range : 5m Toxic 0.5kg

Take anything that weighs 0.5 kilograms. Try to hit something from a distance of 20 meters (maximum distance for the base 5 range).

Stop. No. Just try to throw a knife which weighs 0.5 kilograms. BTW, this knife weighs 250 grams . I have this, I weighed it.

i'm just going by the weight of the throwing knives in DH

I like the stats of the knife from only war

(1d5+3) pen 0 range SBx2m Accurate Toxic (2) 0.5kg. I will put poison in these btw also my GM follows the rules for toxic in only war. The only thing I don't like is the lack of pen so if I get get them made of a fine metal that is very heavily sharpened would it be ok to make them pen 3? It increase the price to 100 on the knifes.

The cost for these knives including the poison would be 100 thrones now. Also the rule about refilling poison still applys.

Let me know what you think!

The only thing I don't like is the lack of pen so if I get get them made of a fine metal that is very heavily sharpened would it be ok to make them pen 3?

The Mono upgrade is a pretty universal one and I can't see any reason you couldn't apply it to a thrown knife any more than one used to stab. I can't recall if that's 2 or 3 extra Pen.

The only problem with counting the TB against the explosive damage is that the explosive damage itself then doesn't do much damage although I can see logic in what you are saying.

In which case I would suggest upping the damage (or at least damage bonus) by one or two points to take account of the fact that you'll be reducing it for toughness, rather than ignoring toughness. Not wanting the knives to be weak I understand, but a weapon shouldn't do the same damage to two characters with wildly differing toughness.

The stats for the knife are as followes

Range 5m Damage (1D5+3) pen 2 Accurate Toxic (2) 0.5kg

I have made the range 5m instead of SBX2 because I think it is more balanced to have the range at 5m.

The cost for each knife will be 50 and an additional 15 for each dose of poison.

Let me know what you think!

I can`t help but wonder what makes thrown knives Accurate. They require great skill to use effectively and a user has no aid to help him hit from the weapon itself. (Like even the most rudimentary iron sights.) He just says to himself "there" and throws a piece of sharp metal.

If this method is so much more effective than aiming over sights or through a scope why aren`t grenades accuate?

Then again I`ve always wondered why lasweapons aren`t all accurate, I mean lasers are somewhat famed for travelling in straight lines.

Then again I`ve always wondered why lasweapons aren`t all accurate, I mean lasers are somewhat famed for travelling in straight lines.

Easy to hit with, yes. But accurate means easy to cause a wounding hit with. Whilst you may not have to deal with 'bullet drop', a bullet's damage all arrives in one 'thwock' of kinetic energy. A lasbolt may mean holding your aim on a single spot on a (potentially moving) target for a small fraction of a second, which is a different marksmanship challenge (hence why a different weapon training talent is needed).

Easy to hit with, yes. But accurate means easy to cause a wounding hit with.

No, it doesn`t. Accurate means only that something (a weapon in this case) is capable of perfoming a given intended function to a significant degree of precision.

in other words: it hits what it`s aimed at.

Now a sighted laser is far more likely to do this than a thrown knife.

Back to mechanics, why should an untrained knife thrower taking aim as likely to hit as a snapshot from a trained marksman?

To sum up why does a throwing knife deserve to have accurate when most of the rilfes don`t?

To sum up why does a throwing knife deserve to have accurate when most of the rilfes don`t?

Because the inventor of the "Accurate toxic explosive throwing knife" wants an uber - weapon, I think.