So, on the subject of wounds and Space Marine deaths,

A Space Marine can take a number of wounds equal to his Wounds + Toughness Bonus before he starts taking Crit. Damage, correct? And then, only then, will he start to die based on critical effects, yes?

But if he does say, take a magnitude 9 las cannon blast to the head after reaching this threshold, he can still burn a fate point to save his life, right?

TB only decreases the amount of damage a character suffers from attacks, it has no bearing on wounds.

Once wounds are at zero all damage from that point on is critical. All Space Marines have the True Grit talent at character creation, so be sure to take that into consideration when dealing critical damage.

If a space marine took 9 damage to the head from a lascannon while at 0 wounds he would take 4 energy crit damage to the head (which is added to any crit damage already recieved).

If a character suffers a critical damage result which indicates he dies (or damage affects cause him to die such as a failed toughness test) he can burn (permanently loose) a fate point to not die. The resulting damage is anything the GM wishes to inflict. Some choose to just use the highest non-lethal crit effect, but you can apply any result you deem appropriate as the GM.

Deathwatch characters rolll 18+1d5 for Wounds (so the Wound range is 19-23). So you don't anymore add your Toughness bonus to it like in DH and RT.

Ok, that sounds right. I read too much in one sitting and somehow negating AP+TB to damage scores became, `A Marine only dies when wounds+TB are reached.`

Thanks again, guys (and girls?). You have been a great help. Keep following me as I am sure I will bombard you with more easy questions soon enough... like RIGHT NOW!

So, for an NPC/PC for a separate game I just created, I took the `Bring Death From Afar` Power Armor history. This states that the penalty for moving and firing any pistol/basic/heavy weapon is negated because of the Armors familiar machine spirit. Is that seriously what it means? That, if I move and fire my heavy bolter without it being braced, the -30 penalty to hit is no longer an issue??

And, a less technical querry: Does anyone have a step-by-step process in which they create characters quickly and efficiently? I put something together for the new people in my group, but already I can see that I left out some little things.

That, if I move and fire my heavy bolter without it being braced, the -30 penalty to hit is no longer an issue??

Not exactly.

'Bracing' a heavy weapon is kind of a non-issue because astartes have Bulging Biceps as a standard Talent (I think), which removes the need to spend time bracing a heavy weapon before firing*.

The 'moving and firing penalty' comes in where you want to move and fire a weapon as a Full Automatic Burst as a combined action - see the Full Auto section in the combined actions bit of the rulebook.

* This happens a lot in Deathwatch, unfortunately. Between Fear and Corruption, Bracing, Injury types that marine armour and implants mitigate or ignore, and so on, the Deathwatch core book is littered with rules that simply have no relevance to the game you play - they are in there because the core rules are (more or less) the same as Dark Heresy, and things have been copy-pasted.

Take the carrying limits table as an example. It uses the combination of a players S and T bonuses, and runes from 2 to 20, which is pretty useless for marines . A space marine's bonuses (assuming he's in powered armour) run from a minimum of 14 to up to about 36 (if using Feat of Strength).

* This happens a lot in Deathwatch, unfortunately. Between Fear and Corruption, Bracing, Injury types that marine armour and implants mitigate or ignore, and so on, the Deathwatch core book is littered with rules that simply have no relevance to the game you play - they are in there because the core rules are (more or less) the same as Dark Heresy, and things have been copy-pasted.

Take the carrying limits table as an example. It uses the combination of a players S and T bonuses, and runes from 2 to 20, which is pretty useless for marines . A space marine's bonuses (assuming he's in powered armour) run from a minimum of 14 to up to about 36 (if using Feat of Strength).

NPCs and most enemies are not Astartes, to cover how fear, weight, and combat works for them (because you are likely to be fighting with or against them many, many times) the rules in the rulebook are written from their standpoint. The specific rules for space marines simply counter or ignore most of the standard rules.

So it is the standard DH rule framework with Space Marine rules included which excludes or modifies many of the standard rules.

99.99999999999999999999% of the Imperium follow normal rules

00.00000000000000000001% of the Imperium are Space Marines

Outstanding. So what about dual wielding? I have a techmarine that wants to dual wield bolt pistols and eventually mount a flamer to his armor. How doable is this? I remember reading that dual wielding is definitely an option. But with Marines not suffering a penatly for firing a standard Bolter one handed, is it in the realm of possibility for him to dual wield Bolters?

Outstanding. So what about dual wielding? I have a techmarine that wants to dual wield bolt pistols and eventually mount a flamer to his armor. How doable is this? I remember reading that dual wielding is definitely an option. But with Marines not suffering a penatly for firing a standard Bolter one handed, is it in the realm of possibility for him to dual wield Bolters?

Yes and no. You can wield a bolter one-handed whilst wearing powered armour (thanks to the Recoil Gauntlets, one of the armour's subsystems), and you can obviously requisition a second bolter. Two pistols, as one-handed weapons, can obviously be wielded even when not in armour.

Firing both bolters/pistols as a single action, however, requires the Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) talent. This exists, but I'm not sure if it's readily available to a techmarine character. I know the Assault Marine has it available at Rank 1, and I've seen several 'John Woo' assault marines with a pair of bolters. If he really wants it, a techmarine may have to agree a price to pay to take it as an elite advance.

As far as mounting a flamer on his armour goes, it depends what you mean. There is a weapon modification called 'forearm mounted', which obviously just leaves your hands free, but doesn't let you fire the weapon other than as a normal attack action, but there are also things like the servo-harness and weapon mechadendrites. Whilst the exact rules for weapon augmetics vary, generally they allow you to use your reaction to make another attack, this time with the implant weapon (note that you don't need Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) to do this).

Outstanding. So what about dual wielding? I have a techmarine that wants to dual wield bolt pistols and eventually mount a flamer to his armor. How doable is this? I remember reading that dual wielding is definitely an option. But with Marines not suffering a penatly for firing a standard Bolter one handed, is it in the realm of possibility for him to dual wield Bolters?

Yes and no. You can wield a bolter one-handed whilst wearing powered armour (thanks to the Recoil Gauntlets, one of the armour's subsystems), and you can obviously requisition a second bolter. Two pistols, as one-handed weapons, can obviously be wielded even when not in armour.

Firing both bolters/pistols as a single action, however, requires the Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) talent. This exists, but I'm not sure if it's readily available to a techmarine character. I know the Assault Marine has it available at Rank 1, and I've seen several 'John Woo' assault marines with a pair of bolters. If he really wants it, a techmarine may have to agree a price to pay to take it as an elite advance.

As far as mounting a flamer on his armour goes, it depends what you mean. There is a weapon modification called 'forearm mounted', which obviously just leaves your hands free, but doesn't let you fire the weapon other than as a normal attack action, but there are also things like the servo-harness and weapon mechadendrites. Whilst the exact rules for weapon augmetics vary, generally they allow you to use your reaction to make another attack, this time with the implant weapon (note that you don't need Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) to do this).

I was going to let him purchase the Dual Wielding (Ballistic) feat as an elite advance at first level. And I had the same idea as you did for the flamer - meaning, I knew he couldnt fire all three in one round unless one was a reaction shot from an arm mounted flamer/mechandendrite flamer, etc. But good looking out.

Since I posted this he decided to take the Flesh is Weak (1) skill instead. I actually posted a question about that that Routaa answered. If you would like to give your interpretation of that talent, I would love to hear it. My post should be easy enough to find after clicking on my profile.

Whilst the exact rules for weapon augmetics vary, generally they allow you to use your reaction to make another attack, this time with the implant weapon (note that you don't need Two-Weapon Wielder (Ballistic) to do this).

The attack is not made as a reaction. You use up your reaction to make another attack with that weapon. Similar to an all-out attack or other abilities which require the expenditure of a reaction to work.

When dealing with servo-arms, this only applies to the servo-arms melee attack. You do not get to shoot a weapon on the arm.

So, a servo arm CANNOT shoot - say if it had a plasma cutter on it - as a reaction? It could only make ranged attacks as standard actions?

Correct.

I have a copy of it. I have yet to go through it in earnest.

What changes in it are absolutely critical to having a better gaming experience? What did you find most useful about it personally?

Be aware that the errated weapon changes will let you make a marine who is immune to bolter fire with relative ease and will probably require changing some NPC stats around. They're really designed around the Unnatural system in Black Crusade and Only War, which is a + to Characteristic Bonus rather than a doubling.

Outstanding. So what about dual wielding? I have a techmarine that wants to dual wield bolt pistols and eventually mount a flamer to his armor. How doable is this? I remember reading that dual wielding is definitely an option. But with Marines not suffering a penatly for firing a standard Bolter one handed, is it in the realm of possibility for him to dual wield Bolters?

I wouldn't let him do this at Rank 1, and it would cost a huge amount of XP, since it is 1) stepping on the Assault Marine's toes and 2) the lack of ability to do things like this is the counterbalance for the techmarine's unbelievable durability.

Alright, I am not letting him do it. I will still let him dual wield, but he will take all the necessary penalties for it.

Speaking of which, my assault marine has taken the Two Weapon Wielder (melee) talent and plans on using his combat knife and chain sword. Am I to understand that if he uses a full round action to attack he can hit with both, but at a -20 penalty to attack? If so, why such a harsh penalty? It seems to handicap him in his designated role as melee enthusiast.

Am I to understand that if he uses a full round action to attack he can hit with both, but at a -20 penalty to attack? If so, why such a harsh penalty? It seems to handicap him in his designated role as melee enthusiast.

Yes and no.

Whilst using Two-Weapon Wielder comes with a hefty penalty, this can be reduced by having Ambidextrous- which all marines have as standard anyway* - to a -10. Also note that dual-wielding is providing extra extra attacks on top of swift attack, which I think the assault marine starts with.

* Another example of what I meant earlier.

OK, thank you. I thought the Assault Marine had something to make up for this.

So, what about another character - non assault marine - wielding two pistols? What are the negative modifiers per attack there?

Again, I hate that some talents/rules are brought straight from the other systems that apply mainly to non-Astartes players.

OK, thank you. I thought the Assault Marine had something to make up for this.

So, what about another character - non assault marine - wielding two pistols? What are the negative modifiers per attack there?

Again, I hate that some talents/rules are brought straight from the other systems that apply mainly to non-Astartes players.

Its all the same ruleset. A human character with Two Weapon Wielder (TWW) and Ambidextrous would be able to use an extra attack with only a -10 penalty, exactly as your assault marine.

Its all about the talents. Space Marines begin the game with, or have access to, a significant number of talents a human would take years of training, multiple cybernetic enhancements, and archeotech devices to duplicate. Yet humans could gain many of the benefits space marines have.

Two Weapon Fighting (TWF) rules, listed on page 246, go over this in pretty solid detail.

When making attacks with ONLY ONE HAND, weapon attackes from the non dominate hand (secondary hand) suffer -20 to hit. The ambidextrous talent (page 113) counters this penalty. Space Marines begin the game with Ambidextrous (Page 36).

When making attacks with weapons in TWO HANDS at the same time using TWF with the TWW talent (page 128) both weapon attacks suffer -20 to hit. If the character has the Ambidextrous talent this is decreased to -10.

One of the Erratas states any character can use TWF to make attacks with two weapons at the same time without the TWW talent but each attack suffers a -30 to hit, instead of -20. Most players have decided to adopt this. This is the only rules about TWF which does not appear in the rulebook.

Hello gentlemen, It has been a while since I added anything to this thread, but I have been thinking about a particular idea. I would like to get your input.

In the Errata, the standard Bolter (Godwyn patter, I believe) has a RoF of S/3/-. Mechanically, I don`t know how bad or well this works yet, as our game hasnt yet started, however, I have been thinking about upping the RoF to S/4/-. My reasoning is that, although the game lists semi-auto as a `burst,` it is more akin to firing the weapon as many times as you can pull the trigger. Not holding down the trigger and getting 3 shots. This would be a fully automatic burst. It may be semanitcs, but that is how my brain works.

I believe that in 5 seconds, roughly the time duration of a single round, a Marine (actually anyone really) could pull off 4 semi auto shots on target, rather than 3. 3 just seems low to me. Has anyone tried something like this? What problems can you forsee or have you experienced?

Are you a Psyker? Just have to ask as I was thinking quite a same thing as this when I walked to work.

My though was that Semi-auto fire is more like, just like you said, pulling the trigger as many times as you can in single time frame.

In the army I learned that even 2 seconds is long enough to take aim and pull the trigger. So I think Astartes, who are übermensch + recoil gloves inbuild in the Power Armour, could take good enough aim and pull trigger many times and still score decent hits.

So 2 secs for taking aim and first shot, then 3 additional shots per sec = 5 secs. Might be possible.

Are we having a moment right now?!? I also bet that FFG`s liberal use of the word `clip` when they mean `magazine` is equally frustrating for you as well? Haha.

My buddy from the Corps who became a Sheriff was out shooting with me and we were doing Tap, Rack, and Roll firing drills. As well as speed reloading drills. I am sure you have heard of these.

Essentially, at certain close ranges even 2 seconds is a bit much. But I completely agree, at 1-2 seconds I could get on target and squeeze 1 + 3 follow ups within a 5 second limit. No questions asked.

I am using the errata, so their weapon damage is already cut, and short of giving their bolters an auto-burst function, I think I am going to increase the amount of shots fired on semi-auto in one round to 4.

Well as non-english speaker, i'm didn't know the difference before you mentioned it.

But just quick checked Errata that it would be not impossible to raise Bolters RoF to S/4/-, as that would make it use magazine evenly.

Also noticed that Combi-weapon's Bolter has RoF of S/4/- so why is it not same on Godwyn pattern as that is usually the basic used.

So, by all rights and purposes the Bolter SHOULD be fired at S/4/- Rate of Fire.

Correct me if I am wrong, but some variants of the Bolter presented in Rites of Battle and other Supplementals have a fully-automatic function, yes?

As I don't have my books available right now have to use Errata and there didn't seem to be any Bolter with Full-auto in Rites of Battle section of weapons.

Hmmm, well it seems there might be some Bolters that have Full-auto fire but they are vehicle mounted versions. At least i get that impression when I went through this sites weapon list