What makes you say that it works as intended?

As for Terrify: Nope, the Commissar specifically has a special Advance that only he can buy to make it affect players.
Edit:

When employing the Terrify special use of the Command Skill, its effects apply to all members of his Squad,

including Player Characters.

I think that's just to clarify that it works even if the squad isn't necessarily the Commissar's 'followers' - in the typical command squad situation, the Lieutenant is the boss and everyone else are the followers, as the Commissar is not in command (unless he or she seizes it).

Then why is it not in the description of Terrify, but only in the Commissar's advance? Why do they never use the word follower anywhere else (and previously it was only for NPCs, as I understand)?

On top of that, your interpretation would make it so that the main / only actual effect of the Advance is that the Commissar counts as having Fear(2). That is however noted in the last sentence, and prefaced with "Additionally, [...]" strongly suggesting that it's 'just' an additional effect, and clearly not the only one.

(also, because I'm genuinely curious, what makes you say that Suppressing Fire works as intended? I feel that it really doesn't, and that the majority here agrees somewhat at least, so I'd be interested in hearing a dissenting voice )

I feel Supressing Fire works appropriately. It forces people into cover, and frankly, I deliberately use it to remind my players that tactics do actually exist in the game. The key is just to use some sense and not overuse it.

Suppressing fire is working as intended because volume of fire is super important in winning firefights. The psychological effects of bullets flying everywhere shouldn't be overlooked.

As far as Terrify goes, in the uses for the Command skill it specifically notes that it can be used to rally the squad; there's no way to do that with the skill if you take followers to mean NPC's. I take follower in that case to mean 'subordinate' since it's not a game term, I'm going with the basic definition of the word. I take the Commissar's ability to mean that they can use Terrify even if they aren't in charge; entirely keeping with the Commissar's function.

Mmh. That's not how it reads to me at all, but hey, it's an interpretation that works well, so I think I might use that one too.

So basically you're saying that Suppressing Fire works as intended, because it's there at all?
I mean, I certainly wasn't saying that it shouldn't be there at all. Just that as it is, it completely stops gameplay, because it is too strong.

So basically you're saying that Suppressing Fire works as intended, because it's there at all?

I mean, I certainly wasn't saying that it shouldn't be there at all. Just that as it is, it completely stops gameplay, because it is too strong.

We frequently see the number 50 thousand rounds fired per kill, in the context of the US war in Vietnam. Higher numbers have been quoted for the US efforts in Irak and Afghanistan. A lot of bullets are wasted, not a lot hit.''

Now, does suppressive fire work? Yes, it does. It's normal, healthy human instinct to take cover, and most militaries will train their soldiers to further reinforce this instinct. So yeah, suppressive fire should work.

Is it too strong? Perhaps, but I don't think so.

I see it as an opportunity for a little bit of tactics.

And maybe buying Nerves of Steel if the problem persists.

Okay. So what tactics could my squad have used in the situation I'd described in the beginning of the thread to get out of pinning and do something?
My issue with Suppressive Fire is not whether it's realistic or not, while I like my games to be realistic (i.e. internally consistent and things work as you expect, unless specifically noted) my experience with Suppressive Fire as presented in the rules of this game was such that it would be better, if I had to suspend my disbelief at the mechanics, than the current and probably realistic, mechanics.

Oh and Nerves of Steel hardly helps, since I only get out of Pinning at the end of my turn . Since the enemy can then just pin me again, a 20% (instead of 10%) chance to resist getting pinned is not really useful.

If you are being suppressed, then you need to disrupt the opponent suppressing you in some manner. Usually by getting someone else to draw their attention. My players tend to fan out so that they're not all in a trooper's suppression arc. They also try to get the jump where possible.

The Commisar having fearless seems to help a lot as well, as he ignores pinning and instead runs out and locks the suppressor in melee.

I think most of it is positioning.

Okay, fanning out is a good point. Still, if, somehow, the enemy (or two enemies or three, because there are enough) manages to pin all of us, then what? Perhaps flame weapons, if we're in range. Meleeing can help, but if the melee guy is pinned himself, he can't get into melee, because he can't leave cover.

That there are scenarios where it's not utterly broken doesn't mean that it isn't too strong. But hey, I have my houserules to fix that, so I'm okay

Ultimately, I leave a lot of it to my own discretion as a GM. I typically have to decide when enough is enough and they revert to just plain old shooting to conserve ammunition. Granted, I use Severans with autoguns most of the time, meaning that they dry up after about three suppressions.

Flame weapons, or just honestly blast weapons that don't care too much about hitting (grenade launchers, for example). Even if they scatter the d5 meters they can still hit the target you're shooting at with that -20 bs penalty. That or everyone take Frenzon.

The range of flame weapons is just too short for that, though. And we've tried grenades, but the supply is very limited and as long as they don't kill (which is most of the time) it doesn't stop the enemy from suppressing. Oh and Indirect Fire is out, since it's a Full Action.

...Have you tried suppressing them first?

I just don't understand how this is such a recurring problem.

Are you constantly ambushed? Do your players never pass awareness tests? Are your initiatives all so low that you never act first? Have you tried not rushing headlong into fights but outmaneuvering the enemy before you are engaged to have the upper hand and catch them unaware? Do you have a sniper or any heavy weapon long-range element?

Or is it a problem with your GM where you are just walking down the countryside and out of nowhere you are being suppressed?

Nope, we almost never pass Awareness, as most of us didn't have it at creation and didn't realize how important it was. With -20 to any Awareness test we constantly fail. We haven't had the chance to outmaneuver the enemy yet, except in one circumstance which was then handled narratively (mop-up after a bigger fight).
Yes, the sniper has gotten us out by eventually breaking the enemy twice so far.
The first time, we didn't try suppressing, as it was our first game ever. After that, yes, but we had bad luck with the dice.

I wasn't the one who restarted this topic, because I haven't really gotten to play again. However, the issue remains, that once you are pinned, the game just stops. Yes, there are some ways to avoid it, yes, the GM can just opt not to use it but none of that actually addresses that Suppressive Fire as written is too powerful.

You suppress for a reason. The reason is usually to get into a better position to actually kill the people you're suppressing. While enemies are suppressing your squad, they should be trying to flank you or get into melee range. In other words, suppression that lasts longer than 3 rounds is pointless, and a complete waste of ammunition, because while it might kill your squad, the next one they meet is going to have their mags be amusingly empty.

Another option to deal with it is loose formation. If you can't be encompassed by a 45 degree arc, you can't all be supressed. An entire squad trying to suppress is idiotic. It won't happen. It's usually the heavy weapons crew doing it with something with an insane rate of fire, not some dude with a las-gun.

I get what you're saying, and it makes sense. RAW, however, that isn't really true. A lasgun can suppress for a long time without running out of ammo, and two, possibly three people out of ten is hardly the whole squad, and more than enough.

Semi-auto suppression by a single gunner should not be possible. That's why line infantry is even a thing in 40k. Volleys are what should be suppressing there, because taking on a firing line is scary.

In other words, the rules aren't ideal. I'd suggest having conceivable tactical reasons outside the rules allowing something to take an action. It makes things more fun for everyone at the table.

I imagine limiting suppression to automatic weapons fixes a lot of it really. I usually only have Autoguns and Heavy Bolters use it, so the players inherently expect to be suppressed and flanked, so wait for the sniper go nail the guy with the auto weapon.

RAW, sure, semi auto can do it. Just making it auto only - even if only for NPCs - does go a long way.

And what exactly stops your from retreating while you're pinned?

Thats how it is done in real world. If the whole team is immobilised thats the only solution.

Next time youre gonna send only one guy at the pinners and make them spray. Other guys may try to outflank the enemy. Or you can stretch your troops so that the arc no longer covers entire team.

Or even better you can send only one guy behind a wall to make noise and shoot occasionally. Make enemy shoot out all the rounds and strike when hes gonna reload or starting to conserve ammo. Not much of a rolling is required here and only one player and GM is required so the other guys may go and grab some beer or sth.

The bits about only being allowed a half action and not being allowed to leave cover. I suppose we could've lain down and crawled away, thereby staying in cover, even if 3m movement is not enough to actually reach the next bit of cover. Apart from that, my character had no cover within 3m that he could've retreated to.

Ah, sry, it was our house rule that pinned characters may decide to run for it (leave the "arena" of the fight) while being pinned, They can't do anything else during the run, not even turn their heads back to see what's going on. The enemy receives a free round of actions against them (so he can shoot them while they're out of cover, running), can reload while the pinned characters regroup, change positions, gather the wounded or even chase pinned characters.

Pinned characters may then assemble in the last safe place that they visited and try to be more cautious next time - send scouts, find a flanking route to the enemy, an upper ground.

Interesting... Chance to try again with consequences. I like that as a rule

That is a really good solution, Com. I am taking that.