Cover and Armor, Unequivocal conformation form Sam or other Dev. Please!

By FuriousGreg, in Game Mechanics

I know this has been/is being discussed to death in the EotE Forum but the last word from Sam was a little vague for some and there is still ongoing discussion. To put a fork in this I am hoping he or some other developer will please UNEQUIVOCALLY state once and for all if and when Cover and Armor Stack. If you're not Sam or another Developer of the game please refrain from adding your opinion, as valuable as it may be I'm not trying to rehash a discussion that will bury this post just trying to get a clear answer from the Devs..

Thank you

Sam's slightly vague previous answer:

"GM: Rikoshi needs some defense clarification. He says page 207 says that multiple sources of defense don't stack. Is this referring to personal sources of defense or does this mean the defense from cover and defense from armor don't stack?
Sam: It doe… that's a good question and unless the source of defense specifically states otherwise, you know, unless it's… unless the source specifically breaks that rule it doesn't stack. So yes, in general if you have defense from your armor and you have defense from your cover you only get a certain amount of bonus.
And the big reason that exists, from a totally meta-game reason, is to avoid stacking too many bonuses and bloating out the dice pool too much. And it also may mean that if you need to get some… if you want to get a higher defense than your armored clothing offers for example, maybe you just need to get in better cover, like get behind a trench or a giant duracrete building or something.
But yes, in general, the two things do not stack from each other."
Edited by FuriousGreg

PS. Just to clarify, I understand Sam's answer to mean that Armor and Cover do not stack and you are supposed to use the best of the two. However there are many that do not agree and I want the argument to be laid to rest.

Edited by FuriousGreg

Hard to get more official than one of the guys responsible for the product line.

The people that don't agree are going to keep disagreeing and keep whining no matter who answers, be it Jay Little, Andy Fischer, or J. Edgar Hoover.

Hard to get more official than one of the guys responsible for the product line.

The people that don't agree are going to keep disagreeing and keep whining no matter who answers, be it Jay Little, Andy Fischer, or J. Edgar Hoover.

I'm pretty sure thats what I just asked for. Sam in the quote above ended with " But yes, in general, the two things do not stack from each other."

leaving it a little open-ended and so the discussion continues. I'm looking for closure.

Edited by FuriousGreg

Everyone else took that " in general " to be with regards to the prior line about " unless the source specifically breaks that rule ".

Everyone else took that " in general " to be with regards to the prior line about " unless the source specifically breaks that rule ".

I agree with your opinion, however:

http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/86214-cover-and-armor/

This ones up to seven pages right now and still active, so I guess not everyone has quite the same opinion, I'm looking for a clearer answer to end the debate.

Edited by FuriousGreg

So Jay Little's response on the Order 66 podcast (episode 14/15) isn't clear enough?

Or am I misunderstanding the question?

It's clear enough to me but there are a few folks in that above thread that don't seem to get it. I think the problem is he used the word "generally" and talked about defense stacking without specifically saying "Armor & Cover do not stack use the best of the two values".

Yes I get that what he said was basically the same thing but some people aren't able to understand anything but direct answers. I sent a note to CS and hopefully they will just send back a simple answer that will bury this question.

It's clear enough to me but there are a few folks in that above thread that don't seem to get it. I think the problem is he used the word "generally" and talked about defense stacking without specifically saying "Armor & Cover do not stack use the best of the two values".

Yes I get that what he said was basically the same thing but some people aren't able to understand anything but direct answers. I sent a note to CS and hopefully they will just send back a simple answer that will bury this question.

Hell, I would love an official FAQ from FFG. The fan-based one is great, but you are right about the number of people wanting "official" black and white answers.

Search for the thread, answers by Sam Stewart, as he and Jay did a question and answer session on the order 66 podcast. And I also posted a direct reply from Sam about this very question, which was asked via the 'ask a rules question'.

Search for the thread, answers by Sam Stewart, as he and Jay did a question and answer session on the order 66 podcast. And I also posted a direct reply from Sam about this very question, which was asked via the 'ask a rules question'.

Is it the one I've quoted at the top of this thread?

Cool, Thanks. That's pretty definitive.

They really do need to put out an official Errata sheet...

Edited by FuriousGreg

Yes, yes they do.

The subtext of the question here seems to be, "The devs have said that cover and armor don't stack, but I kind of want them to anyway."

It's your game. If you think it's better for the rules and more fun for you and your table if they do stack, then go ahead and let them stack.

I promise that the FFG Fun Police aren't going to kick down your door mid-session and demand that you run it the other way. :)

Nah, he seemed to concede the point after the recent link re: the question of "what's RAW" (since if Rule Zero were that prioritized then I doubt he'd even care enough about what RAW says to even ask :P ).

Edited by Chortles

I got a response from Sam and because of that crazy privacy clause on FFG emails I can't quote directly but if I could it would say:

My apologies if I was vague earlier. To unequivocally answer your question, cover and armor do not stack.

I hope this helps.

The fork is firmly embedded in this one :)

So Jay Little's response on the Order 66 podcast (episode 14/15) isn't clear enough?

Or am I misunderstanding the question?

Many people don't accept third party sources as worth ****. Even if they include statements by the developers. Unless and until I see an official errata or a post by the dev team in the official forum labeled as official errata, I never trust anything in a third party source these days. Saves a lot of hassle when dealing with some of my player base.

Especially since, industry wide, the dev is often overruled by the rest of the team, or the guy tasked to maintain the FAQ. (And then there's Mongoose, whose owner denies the need for errata even when shown that a product as direct internal contradictions...)

Further still, there is also the issue set that (1) not everyone is even aware of the Order 66 podcast, (2) some who are aware on't listen, and (3) some who listen don't actually hear what's said, and (4) it's much harder to cite as authoritative a verbal form than a written one. (Not everyone who roleplays has good hearing. I've had a deaf player in a group before.) A podcast is completely inaccessible to deaf players, and impeded for the hard of hearing. The blind can fairly easily use Text To Speech on non-obfuscated PDFs; the deaf and hard of hearing have a far harder time converting audio to a useful format.

Edited by aramis

No-one listens to the Order 66 Podcast. :D

Probably the same people that don't listen to Order 66 are the very same people that don't read these forums.

Joke's on you, I only read these forums! :lol:

No-one listens to the Order 66 Podcast. :D

Probably the same people that don't listen to Order 66 are the very same people that don't read these forums.

I truly don't listen to the O66 podcasts. I tried twice and both times I was so bored that my attention drifted within minutes. I read quickly and can get to the information I want at my own speed that way, but listening to podcasts is like watching glacier racing for me. Doesn't mean I didn't chuck $20.00 to them for their Kickstarter since I appreciate what they're trying to do, but my interest in them is entirely in the adventures they put out and not in their podcasts.

No-one listens to the Order 66 Podcast. :D

Probably the same people that don't listen to Order 66 are the very same people that don't read these forums.

I don't listen to podcasts as a general rule. Not worth the bandwidth, plus the Order 66 guys are BORING as hell to listen to. I'd rather watch paint dry.

Anything official leaked via the podcast would do well to be written up and put up in PDF, because then it would at least be accessible.

Clarification has been added to the AoR beta errata.