Quick question from a new blood to the boards from a rather confused GM:

I have a Tech Marine who is being a pain in the proverbial and would like to try and unleash a nice little bit of pain upon them to try and wipe the smug grin from their metallic Astartes chops. Problem is they have "Abhor the Witch" which means many of the high damage effects I usually like to throw (Psyker abilities and stuff) fail. I still want to use these though and am looking at ways around it.

I found a topic here where people have said that force weapon abilities wouldn't likely apply against them (well the channeling part) if they pass their roll but the physical damage still does, so thats one option.

What however, are peoples thoughts about the use of Abhor the Witch at resisting Warp Weapons?

Additionally, I'm using Black Crusade rules to make a few daemon weapons to add some extra bite to their enemies. Would you say it's reasonable that Abhor the Witch could/should protect the Tech Marine from the effects of a daemon weapon or Warp Weapon qualities?

Exact wording says "subject of psychic power, daemonic power other warp-based power." Arguably since a daemon weapon or warp weapon isn't using a power I would in theory say no...

Help would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance.

Abhor the Witch only affects the marine who takes it. He does not get to nulify attacks or effects which happen to other characters, only those effecting him. The powers still activate they just do nothing ONLY to the character with Abhor the Witch IF he passes his willpower test.

Using a force weapon is a psychic power, so it can be nullified.

Warp weapons are not affected by this talent though and will tear right through ALL armour the character has.

Deathwatch teams are part of the Ordo Xenos and are unlikely to come into contact with many daemons or daemonic powers. Throw some Tau at them. A horde of Tau fire warriors can hurt quite a bit (3D10+12 p4 with ROF 2 and 2 or more shots). A railgun is also another terrible threat (essentially a stay hidden or get dead situation: 3D10+30 p15). Several crisis suits with plasma, backed up with a squad or two of fire warriors following in on a kroot ambush (kroot grappling and knocking down to slow the marines down) with a silent squad of pathfinders to mark a couple of seeker missiles their way while staying stealthed if they survive the attack would be a serious issue for any force.

Do not forget: you CANNOT dodge an attack you don't see coming, and if the shot is going 6 times the speed of sound you aren't going to hear it. If you want to dodge bullets, you have to see the gun.

Carnifex, overlords, lictors, and other large tyranids can deal damage to all but the hardest space marines, it even gets worse with the Toxic ability (odds are lots of attacks = some go off). Support them with some units of gaunts, gargoyles, or genestealers slowing the marines down and/or blocking shots to the bigger bugs and its bound to be a dangerous encounter.

Orks can even put on some hurt (power klaws are 1D10+20 p8 afterall). Or you could have them engage a pack of diablodons. Have a Lacrymole impersonate an inquisitor and infiltrate Erioch under their escort in an attempt to shame the team (Just don't make it where the xenos cannot fail).

There are just as many ways beyond xenos to bring some pain. I've found the Texorcism gun to be an excellent way of culling an overconfident player's sense of invincibility. Nothing humbles a space marine faster than being rooted in place for several turns because his armour stopped working.

With regards to why the Deathwatch are on a chaos hunt, it was originally an alien clear up as per normal however they found themselves being outwit quite well by a Chaos Lord who also happened to be involved at the same time. The Chaos Lord opted to let them live as well, the kind who prefers to defeat and humiliate his enemies to allow them to live with their shame. Refusing to let it drop they have tried to hunt him down. So while yes Ordo Xenos dont normally see the heretic, when they decide to chase one down because he quite frankly embarrassed them then who am I to deny them the thrill of the chase against the great enemy?

But I take the point. Presumably the talent is intended to work as an enhanced "Resistance (Psychic Powers)" only as opposed to an Untouchable style which presumably would negate/weaken a daemon weapon legitimately as being a psychic beast, untouchables hurt to be around?

With that last point of Texorcism weapons as well, I was looking at those as well as Graviton Guns. Either disabling their armour or nailing them to the floor (or both) could probably work as powerful combinations.

Agree that a force weapon should be stopped by it - you have the basic damage from...you know...being stabbed , but that's it.

Warp weapon - rules as written, no it doesn't get stopped. I know some people will argue that it should, and I'm tempted to agree with them, but at the same time I hesitate to grant immunity to things. My personal choice would be no, if only because there are some fairly high end relics and other items whose principle benefit is that they do this (the Armour of the Remorseless Crusader, for example).

My personal suggestion; if you want to keep using chaotic things, and find Mr Abhor The Witch, Destroy The Witch, Actually Just Ignore The Witch She's Harmless annoying, then the key thing to attack is not the armour/damage rating/whatever. You have enough tools to do that. It's the willpower test, because without that he can't use the ability.

Daemonic Presence is your friend here; an area effect willpower penalty. Granted, he might argue "but Abhor the Witch allows me to ignore it" - I would allow him to make a WP test - but he's still got to pass with the penalty first. It's also a very fitting thing to start using if you've got the powers of chaos involved en mass.

Daemonic Presence is your friend here; an area effect willpower penalty. Granted, he might argue "but Abhor the Witch allows me to ignore it" - I would allow him to make a WP test - but he's still got to pass with the penalty first. It's also a very fitting thing to start using if you've got the powers of chaos involved en mass.

This can't be stressed enough for GMs. Space marines might be practically immune to fear, but this immunity can make them more suseptable to certain psyker powers or willpwer affecting abilities.

A fear causeing enemy (any daemon) forces the team leader to take a WP test modified by fear rating. Failure means a loss of cohesion. Marines in squad mode have NO penalties from fear causing enemies. Out of squad mode they suffer a -10 WP penalty for each degree of fear the enemy has.

Use up your cohesion or fail too many WP tests for fear and the kill-team cannot enter squad mode.

Using this a GM can plan a mission with the plan of whittling away the kill-team's cohesion. Then, as the concluding battle, hit them with an enemy psyker (with WP affecting powers) which summons in a couple of lesser daemons (Dark Heresy rulebook, Mark of Xenos: The MoX lessers are probably a tad more powerful than they should be) followed by a herald (Dark Heresy Acension rulebook, Dark Heresy Demon Hunters). That is two WP tests for fear (1 for the initial lessers, followed by a tougher one for the herald when it appears), allong with the daemonic aura resulting in up to a -30 or -40 WP penalty (-10 if still in squad mode). With the psyker using abilities like Bolt of Change, Compel, Dominate, or even a Vortex of Doom to capitalize on the WP resucing effects of the daemons, this encounter is bound to be not only very challenging to the players but also quite terrifying as well.

As to Warp and Force Weapons.

The Warp weapon trait ignores armor but has no effect on the wearer. There is no psychic test or power being used to overwhelm with your force of will. The weapon simply phases (or whatever) through normal armor.

Force weapons work as normal weapons until they cause damage. Then the wielder can use a PSYCHIC POWER to cause additional damage to the target. The initial damage is not affected by AtW but as the additional damage is caused by an actual psychic power, it can be prevented.

This gives me some ideas to work on and know a bit more about the limitations. I have to admit I did forget about the daemonic presence WP penalty although at present it hasn't applied yet since they have been out of range. Will remember that and see how his defence holds up when theres actually one there.

Thank you for your feedback all, much appreciated!