Page 1 was for mourning. Page 2 is clearly for celebration!

Gonna miss the AP system. It had promise.

Ok, I'll admit the update on the news page was a heck of a surprise for me.

As some of you will know I've not been the biggest fan of some of the changes they made in the new rules, but some of them ARE a step forward;

Character creation,

the new skill system (not to sure on ALL of the minimising but I could have lived with it happily),

the new sector,

the vehicle rules

proper rules for investigation

all of the above are worthy of staying in DH 2 - none of them prevent backward compatibility (which I do like the idea of i'm afriad)

The new reenforcements system sounds.......odd to say the least

I like the idea of subtlety, but I'm not really sold on the execution - of course as I can't think of another way of doing it I'm just glad it's staying

The changes to combat and NPC's

I like the fact I will be able to use the small forest of books I currently own, but I would also like to see a little development over the current Only War system

Basically what I'm saying is I'm glad FFG have agreed to take a step back and think about our feedback, but I don't want to see all of the good ideas vanish as well.

Hope that made some sort of sense

Regards

Surak

I defnitely wouldnt want a OW - Inquisitors edition.

If there is no real progress - there is no need to buy a new core rulebook.

Yeah, it is nice to see that they are not saying "Ooops, okey, we will make DH using OW rules and be done with it", but they see the reactions that completely new system isnt that hot (dont take me wrong, I see there is a lot of people who loved the new rules) and who love to use known mechanics and material crossing various 40k lines. And it seems (we should wait for update itself) they choosed the golden middle way. My hopes are high again.

And even if it wont fulfil all my expectations, FFG has definitely risen in my eyes as company.

This is incredibly disappointing - I think it's the only news they could give that's even more disappointing than ending the beta.

FFG bows to peer pressure. When has something great ever been made that listened to the masses? I was worried when I saw the sweeping changes in update #1 that they were too willing to take feedback, but I didn't expect this level of... I can't think of a better word than "cowardice".

Welcome back to mediocrity.

This is incredibly disappointing - I think it's the only news they could give that's even more disappointing than ending the beta.

FFG bows to peer pressure. When has something great ever been made that listened to the masses? I was worried when I saw the sweeping changes in update #1 that they were too willing to take feedback, but I didn't expect this level of... I can't think of a better word than "cowardice".

Welcome back to mediocrity.

The ending being changed to Mass Effect 3.

I think the MOST important take away from this is that I AM THE MOST IMPORTANT PERSON on this board. Example:

- a week ago I POSTED that I would marry the Influence mechanic

-- FFG says that they will keep it

- a few days ago I posted someone else's Only War conversion

-- FFG says they are making the game more Only War-like

So we kill you and take your stuff right? That's how role playing works.

Humor aside, what did we expect them to do. From my view of the forums, most people hated all the new mechanics, they were broken, unusable, etc. Now it seems most people are saying the new version isn't going to be good. When I posted the OW conversion, a number of people were saying that's what they expected.

Also, we don't really know what they're going to do. Only War wasn't exactly the same as Deathwatch, so why would DH 2 be the same as Only War. Wouldn't it be the next, cleaner evolution of the mechanics?

Arrg! I just learned yesterday that most nice weapons in DH are heirloom, rare weapons. I can't bear to lose those.

This is incredibly disappointing - I think it's the only news they could give that's even more disappointing than ending the beta.

FFG bows to peer pressure. When has something great ever been made that listened to the masses? I was worried when I saw the sweeping changes in update #1 that they were too willing to take feedback, but I didn't expect this level of... I can't think of a better word than "cowardice".

Welcome back to mediocrity.

The ending being changed to Mass Effect 3.

You think that was great? Really?

The original ending was piss-poor, but the revised one was possibly worse. The fact alone that they changed it showed a weakness of resolve and lack of faith in their own work.

You can't expect any work to be truly great. DH2 included. But caving to every customer's whim is never going to to reach beyond mediocrity.

If people want to play OW ... well, they can play OW. That game already exists. Now FFG will dress it up in a black trench coat to sell as DH Second Edition? That's hardly good news for consumers. I mean, why bother having a super expensive core book for each aspect of the 40k franchise if the most important thing is that it all be cross compatible? If that's the ultimate goal then the criticisms from way back when RT came out are true: just make one core book and then have supplements for your DW game or RT game. This is truly awful news.

This is incredibly disappointing - I think it's the only news they could give that's even more disappointing than ending the beta.

FFG bows to peer pressure. When has something great ever been made that listened to the masses? I was worried when I saw the sweeping changes in update #1 that they were too willing to take feedback, but I didn't expect this level of... I can't think of a better word than "cowardice".

Welcome back to mediocrity.

The ending being changed to Mass Effect 3.

You think that was great? Really?

The original ending was piss-poor, but the revised one was possibly worse. The fact alone that they changed it showed a weakness of resolve and lack of faith in their own work.

You can't expect any work to be truly great. DH2 included. But caving to every customer's whim is never going to to reach beyond mediocrity.

I believe Gemgee meant that the ending being changed was like this change but I could be wrong.

This is incredibly disappointing - I think it's the only news they could give that's even more disappointing than ending the beta.

FFG bows to peer pressure. When has something great ever been made that listened to the masses? I was worried when I saw the sweeping changes in update #1 that they were too willing to take feedback, but I didn't expect this level of... I can't think of a better word than "cowardice".

Welcome back to mediocrity.

The ending being changed to Mass Effect 3.

You think that was great? Really?

The original ending was piss-poor, but the revised one was possibly worse. The fact alone that they changed it showed a weakness of resolve and lack of faith in their own work.

You can't expect any work to be truly great. DH2 included. But caving to every customer's whim is never going to to reach beyond mediocrity.

I believe Gemgee meant that the ending being changed was like this change but I could be wrong.

No it was an amazing thing. And the revised endings made a hell of a lot more sense than LOL contrived deus ex machina out of our asses in the last 2 seconds of scripting. Essays will be written in english literature classes of how to completely ruin a story, and this will be one of the greatest examples of all time. You know when professors in university and college are bashing it the ending was truly atrocious. Ultimately all they could do was band aid it though.

I see this as a huge turn for the best. I was defiantly in the boat of not buying if the game continued down the route I though it was on. Really this community has been falling into a series of flaming filled threads.

I also think that a lot of the old Beta lovers are overreacting.

I really doubt that they'll get rid of the skill groups as they were liked from the start. Perhaps what they mean is that they're going to change how you buy skills (ie using aptitudes to determine xp cost, like in OW).

Likewise, I'm not 100% sure they're going to completely scrap the wounds system. Most people found it overly complex, but did like the concept.

AP might be a little more on the fence, but my email correspondence with the staff very much suggested that everything is open at the moment. So if you really think AP should survive I suggest that you start a thread on it and see if you can win over the majority of the fan base.

I am 100% for a decent amount of backwards compatibility because I have run a lot of games that have been a mash up of 2 40k RPGs.

You'll find me posting a little more often now. Hopefully many of the others will come back too.

This is a good thing. (personallly im hoping the wounds system goes away) but as a business strategy this actually makes alot of sense in that they can now appease the crosscompatable fan base and give some innovation as the posters who liked the beta wanted. its a 50/50 split now and i am happy with that but we will see what we get at the end of november.

So if you really think AP should survive I suggest that you start a thread on it and see if you can win over the majority of the fan base.

I can't think of a more terrible way for professional game developers to design a game.

So if you really think AP should survive I suggest that you start a thread on it and see if you can win over the majority of the fan base.

I can't think of a more terrible way for professional game developers to design a game.

"Rules for that will be in a future module."

*kicks up his heels*

Iveagh, why don't you just play the existing OW-conversion for DH? Easy peasy.

This seems like a real mistake. DH2 had some minor problems but at least it felt like a genuinely new game to enjoy, offering a different, interesting way to play the game.

I hope they'll keep the AP and wound system, but it seems unlikely if they're making it compatible with OW skills and talents.

Did the newest update just say that they scrapped most of the combat and talent tree stuff to go with the "old" system polished up to BC/OW standards?

Probably the last thing I expected. Guess it goes to show just how important the beta test process is to FFG, and that's both fantastic news for the players and a major feather in FFG's cap.

BYE

When I first heard that a second edition of DH was coming, I just assumed that it would be an update to OW -standard, and I was perfectly content with that. Then I read through he announcement and had the wind knocked out of me by the line about DH2 not being compatable with any of the previous WH40KRP games...

After following the Beta testing, I could see that some of the changes (narrative damage, action points) were interesting - but none of them really struck me as being impressive enough to scrap the proven system and gamble on a brand new system. I was open to being swayed in favor of the new system, but the more I studied the new mechanics, the more bugs presented themselves.

So, I guess you can put me down as being in favor of DH2 now being a true 'second edition' rather than a risky reboot...

Hurray! Both thumbs and toes up! Thank the Emprah!