Last Saturday, the Spanish Nationals were played in Madrid. 61 players, cut to Top 8. The winner, Aioria, will also represent Spain at Worlds in November. He's been one of Europe's top Lannister players for years, and I'll be interested in seeing what he can do in America.

Top 8 were:

1 Alvaro R. (Aioria) Lannister No Agenda
2 Jose Ignacio S. V. Targaryen KotHH
3 Jesus V. G. Martell No Agenda
4 Rafael L. L. Martell No Agenda
5 Alberto G.G. Targaryen The Maester's Path

6 Pedro G.H. Lannister Knights of the Realm

7 Alejandro A.R. Greyjoy Black Sails

8 Jesus A.S. Targaryen The Maester's Path

Statistical Breakdown:

Baratheon: 9
Greyjoy: 6
Lannister: 9
Martell: 15
Stark: 11
Targaryen: 11

Siege of Winterfell: 3
KotHH: 7
Knights of the Realm: 8
No Agenda: 20
House of Dreams: 8
Brotherhood Without Banners: 1
Night's Watch 3 Agendas: 1
Power behind the Throne: 3
The Maester's Path: 4
Black Sails: 6

Best Stark: 10th

Best Lannister: 1st

Best Baratheon: 13th

Best Targaryen: 2nd

Best Greyjoy: 7th

Best Martell: 3rd

Full results originally posted here .

So much for the prediction that HoD would be the death knell for No Agenda decks. Looking at you, 2C1C guys.

Also interesting: Only 4 TMP decks, but 2 of them in Top 8. Guess the Maesters still have something to offer, even after having been nerfed epically.

I wonder how many of those Martell decks were net decked DC Quentyn decks. 15 Martell and 20 overall no agenda, I bet quite a few, lol

There's probably a small counting error in the above stats, because when I count No Agenda decks in the complete list of participants, I only reach 19. Of those, 11 were Martell, 4 Stark, 2 Lanni, 1 Targ, 1 GJ. To what degree the Martell decks were netdecked I cannot say, but since the DC decklist hasn't been published (or has it?), I'd say not that much.

You're right, the official list hasn't been published. A couple of best guesses were posted by some other users and they were all but confirmed. If there were 11 Martell no agenda decks, I have to assume a good portion were Quentyn decks and that a number of those were at least inspired by the Gencon deck, but I shouldn't throw around the word "net decked" as it's harsher than I meant to be.

Besides, having your deck made by someone else (whether a friend or a stranger who posted it on the net) doesn't mean you don't need to get to know your deck and take the right decisions during games. And let's not forget the Spanish meta is probably quite different from the US meta, so it calls for different tech. My point here is the term "netdecking" itself is unnecessarily harsh because of the implication it entails a total lack of skill and that's just plain false.

I think part of it is that there are in fact decks that can be played optimally simply by net-decking. So there are actually decks for which net-decking isn't difficult.

I haven't really seen the Quentyn deck, but the core of the concept actually doesn't take a whole lot of skill. The high skill portion comes on the decision making end of things moreso than the character/draw end of things. It's fairly easy to see that you can deny your opponent 3 power AND draw 3 cards a turn by just defending with uniques, so I feel like that could be a part of why people net-decking it might get derided. But you have to play the best deck to even have a chance of winning, so I really don't fault the net-deckers.

I think part of it is that there are in fact decks that can be played optimally simply by net-decking.

I don't believe that, assuming that, by "net-decking", you mean just taking a list and putting the cards together. If you don't familiarize yourself with the deck (and how it interacts with other decks), you will make suboptimal choices. Some choices are obvious, but others are way more subtle. You also need to take what your opponent is doing into account and guess what he's going to do next, a skill that has nothing to do with who built the deck and everything to do with who is playing it.

I think part of it is that there are in fact decks that can be played optimally simply by net-decking.

I don't believe that, assuming that, by "net-decking", you mean just taking a list and putting the cards together. If you don't familiarize yourself with the deck (and how it interacts with other decks), you will make suboptimal choices. Some choices are obvious, but others are way more subtle. You also need to take what your opponent is doing into account and guess what he's going to do next, a skill that has nothing to do with who built the deck and everything to do with who is playing it.

I think everyone would agree with you that "the pilot" is important but i would also point out that a great deck can push a mide level pilot to a win over a great pilot with a worse but still good deck. The two aspects of AGoT are great and super fun and both are as important as the other currently to winning. The current tournament environment is as much about building the right deck for the meta as it is about piloting that deck. Also some deck require very little pilot skill yet can still perform very well at tournaments, though this is not the norm.

I think one of the reason's people dislike netdecking is that it feels to them that the person has "cheated" by using someone else skills for half the tournament (i.e. their deck building skills). I have heard people comment things like; its like playing two people and not one when you play x since y builds his decks. (wish to point out i think netdecking is just fine and is an important step in players learning to build their own decks, which is why i post all my tournament winning decks)

The only way to make sure people use their own deckbuilding skills is to make them build their deck as part of the tournament, which means a format like sealed or draft, but it doesn't work well with the LCG format.

Yea. I still can't wholly convince the NYC guys to help me test out draft formats. Maybe I'll try it with my Netrunner group. I loved sealed tournaments in MtG. They're much more compelling to me.

The only way to make sure people use their own deckbuilding skills is to make them build their deck as part of the tournament, which means a format like sealed or draft, but it doesn't work well with the LCG format.

I don't think the point of a AGoT tournament is to ensure people use their own deckbuidling skills. I believe people should be able to enjoy the game in whatever way they like most. If that's just piloting decks or building them that's fine. This is a game ans so should be fun. Worrying about if someone netdecked or not should not ever be a real issue. Do i think it's great / cool when someone builds a new or original deck... yes for sure but i don't think less of anyone that netdecks. Though i sometimes tease the DC guys about it, I am doing it in a completely fun way and am not serious about it.