I think what people are forgetting is that Jedi aren't supposed to be active and drawing attention. The whole you can't learn the lightsaber skill is to avoid power-gaming but you can learn/earn it at GM discretion as a custom skill and use either Brawn or Agility per the book so I'd say the rules are there. Look at the jedi in the adversaries section and the only advantages they have over their pc equivalent is their force rating and whether or not the GM allowed the learning of lightsaber by pcs, oh wait that's the npc that could even teach you. People are also forgetting that most jedi only have a few of the powers. The fact is if your GM wants there to be jedi you'll have jedi because the rules are there, they're just sort of hidden if you don't think about it. The point of not making it obvious is to stop players from forcing the GM who wants to avoid the power-gamers from playing a jedi by saying "It's in the book as a player class so I can" With what's in either of the first 2 books you can be a Jedi just not the super b@d@$$. I prefer my jedi like Corran Horn, relying on all other abilities first and only using the force when it's truly necessary.

I myself liked what they did and I'm going to purchase all of the books. There's also the fact that they seem intent on releasing packets of rules for specific classes so it may be possible to eventually just buy the rules you want and one core for whichever setting you prefer. The problem is they can't release it all at once and not in an order that would keep everyone happy. I myself wish different class packets were available but that doesn't mean they're making a mistake by doing it the way they are.

As for the people who say the 40k systems weren't compatible with each other; I played all of those systems with crossovers. The balance was handled by the xp pools as the later books stated what amount of it they had. The only non-compatible one was Black-Crusade because it actually changed most of the abilities.

I'm sorry if you don't agree with my views but like all things in life you can't make everyone happy.

Speaking of the style of Jedi that you describe(d) ...

And I suppose you could point out that a major part of the setting is the fact that the "power-gamer" Jedi that such players may have in mind are kriffin' gone ... because the most powerful of 'em turned and mostly wiped out the rest... and "nowadays" he isn't showy about using said powers, oh no . I admittedly don't find it a coincidence that this "seemingly lower power Jedi"* setup parallels Luke's own development in the original trilogy, even if we determine that his training simply occurred off-screen.

* Seemingly -- remember, this is a setting where many don't even believe in the Force, much less have an innate resistance to its use, or even to think to prepare against it. Cue the jokes about the one-eyed in a kingdom of the blind...

I don't buy that a game system can remove power gaming. Power gaming is part of the player not the rules. No one has made a game that can't be system mastered. Don't play with power gamers if you don't like them. It'll be better for you and for them.

Telling people, "No" is the fastest way to make someone try it.

Donovan is right. They have embraced Abstinence-only Education Policy and I don't expect reason to intrude on their decision. That's fine. I expect it will help Force and Destiny sell more copies. Maybe that's what they want.

That doesn't help them sell this book. This book needs to have more to be a viable separate experience. Right now it's a re-skin of Edge of the Empire. That's not Ok.

I want them to do well financially. I expect the license from Disney isn't cheap and they need to sell a number of copies to pay for all of this. All of us are a niche market. There just aren't that many nerds waiting in line to buy this product. That means selling to as many of us as possible and making sure we don't regret our purchases. AoR needs to have more unique stuff to justify it's existence.

I am not gonna say that the Lightsaber skill is what is needed in AoR. Although this book is compared to Empire Strikes Back and a good part of Act III in that story is a Lightsaber duel. No, I'm willing to wait for Force and Destiny. I'm actually curious how they are going to pull off those rules with just talents (since it seems like they have decided that they won't add rules mechanics) and I am sure they need all the time they can get to work on that.

I do think that AoR needs rules that set it further apart from EotE than just Duty. Adding new races, careers and ships doesn't make a new game. That's in the splat book realm. What sucks is if I want to play the game I need all three books because I don't want to play in any one category. And to me, that's incurs my animosity because if EotE had X-wings in it, I would pretty much have all I needed to play AoR up to the point where Return of the Jedi took place. And my group's Star Wars games have never gotten to that point.

Let me ask this... if, in 2016, they decided to do a Clone Wars book. Would they reprint the rules there as well? I mean that's whole different era. It would make sense for that to be it's own game. Maybe they will just make a new mechanic similar to Duty and Obligation called "Inevitability", rename the ships and reprint everything else. (FFG, if you do this I swear I'll go back to WEG)

Let me ask this... if, in 2016, they decided to a Clone Wars book. Would they reprint the rules there as well? I mean that's whole different era. It would make sense for that to be it's own game.

No. I think once all three books are out, there will be supplements, but not core books. I think further books will reference the core books, referencing their careers and information. A Clone Wars book would give you information on running games set in the period and reference AoR and F&D heavily for their careers and abilities. Another book on the Legacy Era or the Old Republic would use all three books. This is aside from the supplements already planned which will expand things greatly.

Let me ask this... if, in 2016, they decided to a Clone Wars book. Would they reprint the rules there as well? I mean that's whole different era. It would make sense for that to be it's own game.

No. I think once all three books are out, there will be supplements, but not core books. I think further books will reference the core books, referencing their careers and information. A Clone Wars book would give you information on running games set in the period and reference AoR and F&D heavily for their careers and abilities. Another book on the Legacy Era or the Old Republic would use all three books. This is aside from the supplements already planned which will expand things greatly.

That's kind of my point. There is no need for 3 core books for the setting we do have.

Yeah, some people don't like the format. They didn't do it this way because they needed to, but because they chose to. Doesn't matter how they chose to do it, though, there will always be detractors. It sucks to be on the other side of the fence. You can complain, and if if there is call, they may change the format. Or you can move on. Or you can suck it up and enjoy the game as it is.

In all honesty, I would have preferred one core and then supplements, but that isn't what they did, and complaining about it won't change it now.

As it is, the three core book format is working for me. Its not ideal, but I like it well enough.

I really don't mind the fact that they are reprinting the core rules. It's the fact that there are situations that a Galactic War brings up that I do not feel are adequately dealt with by them. Namely PCs being a part of or leading a large force and Capital Ships having so many weapons that they will annihilate anything they target in one volley. Not to mention the fact that even with Minion rules there would be too much die rolling.

I think that that's why we're waiting on the hinted-at capital ship rules, Zar... though, again, I would note that by RAW you could literally group up all of the same-type weapons in a firing arc for the purposes of a single attack.

Reprinting core rules is fine when the games are distinct. It worked for the GW stuff because the Space Marine, Black Crusade, and Rogue Trader experiences are vastly different – even if core game concepts are the same.

I left inquisitor out on purpose. I still don't know anyone who wanted to play "That Guy."

The rules delivered in the beta AoR book are not distinct enough nor do they justify a new set of rules. Fortunately it's a beta. There is a chance to correct the course.

Meh. I don't know. I think it's a good solution, not a cheap solution nor compact. It's a solution that will get stuff sold, it will create a larger market and groups that prefer one type of gaming - for instance rebellion games - will have a core book designed for that, with fluff that goes with it, careers that fit, gear and vehicles for those types of games. Even though I know I'd like to have it all, and that it'll cost my a lot, this solution gives me a lot more to choose from, depending on what type of game I want to run, what type of game my players want to play in, and I can play games that are either cross-overs, or more cultivated towards one type of campaigns.

I know I won't convince anyone, but I prefer to see my stance as pragmatic (of course, we all do I guess). Of course they could have done it differently, perhaps "better" (whatever that really means - is "better" my way? you way? some other way? what do we base it on? the previous games and their definite failure? other games?) This is the way it is and I'd prefer to be optimistic, try to enjoy it and immerse myself in it, rather than shouting, trolling and being a general nuisance.

but I prefer to see my stance as pragmatic (of course, we all do I guess).

I think it is pragmatic to point out that they have tried this before with the 40k games, and what happened was that we spent three years arguing about why you couldn't play Space Marines, and then when the Space Marine game finally turned up it sucked because surprisingly enough a system that wasn't designed for playing superheroes turned out to not be very good for playing superheroes.

Make of that what you will, I guess, but we seem to be on track so far.

The problem with 40K was that it wasn't as compatible as what was intended or hoped for. Now, the problem seems to be too much compatibility, to the point where some feel it is the same thing.

Guess you can't please everyone.

Well, for what it is worth I think keeping the games fully compatible is a better solution than changing the games just enough to make them hard to use together but not different enough to actually fix the core problems of the system, so they are actually doing better this time.

but I prefer to see my stance as pragmatic (of course, we all do I guess).

I think it is pragmatic to point out that they have tried this before with the 40k games, and what happened was that we spent three years arguing about why you couldn't play Space Marines, and then when the Space Marine game finally turned up it sucked because surprisingly enough a system that wasn't designed for playing superheroes turned out to not be very good for playing superheroes.

Make of that what you will, I guess, but we seem to be on track so far.

Nope, that is not pragmatic, that is being negative and biased, clearly coloured by a related, but definitely different, case. Related because it's the same company, different because there are different designers, its a different license, different franchise and different type and style of game. You over-generalise and have presumptuous statements, its not pragmatic, its the opposite.

I really hope people are wrong when they say:

"They arent making three core rulebooks, they are making one core rulebook with three different colors and slightly different fluff".

Even though I’ll probably end up buying all 3 books – just to get that little extra. In my opinion, it would have been a lot better with one core rulebook and sourcebooks. But that's just my opinion.

The differences so far aren't huge, but the selection of starships and adversaries is quite different; I pulled them out into cheat sheets, and those increased in size by nearly doubling - very few overlaps. Even the noble and jedi adversary entries are different - subtly so, but different enough that astute players will be able to tell the difference

of the 18 specialties, most are new.

There are at least 7 new talents, and 6 new abilities (5 new racial ones, and a new one for NPC's, not counting the different flavors of "____ leader")

And the fluff will probably be some 100 pages of different fluff - different systems detailed.

So, really, it's probably about 100 duplicated pages of 400 in the final core. But it means also not needing to have the core for Edge when running a rebels game, unless I want to include the extra badguys. (Truth be told, I run from my cheat sheets, not from the book, anyway.)

Also, the separate lines makes it easier to get buy in 3 years on from retailers. Many game stores don't restock old corebooks unless they get special orders for them, or they're D&D or GURPS. And, if the license goes well, I would expect a 4th core in about 2016... for the new Abrams film era and/or the Clone Wars era.

If you insist on having all three core rulebooks and are planning on playing all three games then it may well be an investment that may or may not give you a great deal of return. However, if your desire is only to play in a Rebellion-based campaign then all that you would really need at a minimum is the one core rulebook as opposed to having to purchase the core plus a Rebellion-era supplement.

Personally, I like this and so does my pocketbook.

Furthermore, if one is an exceptionally creative game master, then truly all you would need is the cheaper beta book. All of your rules not further defined, modified and/or added by the Core rulebook would be yours to create and/or define. Your Rebellion-era supplements would come from your own creative thinking. That's what we call nowadays as 'old school role-playing'. Back in the day, it was just the way it was done.

Furthermore, if one is an exceptionally creative game master, then truly all you would need is the cheaper beta book. All of your rules not further defined, modified and/or added by the Core rulebook would be yours to create and/or define. Your Rebellion-era supplements would come from your own creative thinking. That's what we call nowadays as 'old school role-playing'. Back in the day, it was just the way it was done.

Yup, creativity is king and you can still do that with FFG's SWRPG and FATE very easily.

That said, even 1st Ed Ad&d had a bunch of supplements, modules, campaign settings, and then if we add Dragon Magazine... wow. So I think it is a bit of a mis-statement to say that old-school gaming didn't have a good number of supplements and things to help those GMs who don't feel that creative.

Perhaps not with the amount of detail and fluff as nowadays, but it wasn't as ... what is the word? professional? Polished? I mean some of those books were really really rough and some even fairly obtuse. Of course, most of those didn't last into later editions.

Yeah, I'd rather have a $60 (slash/less for preorder!) CRB than a super-CRB for $80-100. Not that I won't buy all 3 books in due time.

Plus they will look wicked cool on my bookshelf.

And plus this way you can let friends borrow your CRB, and you've still got another one handy.

Yeah, I'd rather have a $60 (slash/less for preorder!) CRB than a super-CRB for $80-100. Not that I won't buy all 3 books in due time.

Plus they will look wicked cool on my bookshelf.

And plus this way you can let friends borrow your CRB, and you've still got another one handy.

Yeah, I need to find either another bookshelf or move some stuff around. Maybe take some of those old graphic novels and put them into the comic boxes.

Yeah, I'd rather have a $60 (slash/less for preorder!) CRB than a super-CRB for $80-100. Not that I won't buy all 3 books in due time.

Plus they will look wicked cool on my bookshelf.

And plus this way you can let friends borrow your CRB, and you've still got another one handy.

I don't know if I want to buy this book. I have no interrest in the war from a role playing perspective. I'll most likely get the last book, but personally all I want from a SW game is the setting they gave us with EotE.

I don't know if I want to buy this book. I have no interrest in the war from a role playing perspective. I'll most likely get the last book, but personally all I want from a SW game is the setting they gave us with EotE.

And this is why this multiple CRB thing is such a good idea!