Yeah, I'll be highly surprised if F&D doesn't have reprints of the five Force Powers we already have, along with maybe a couple of new ones (figuring a Healing power and an Injure-type direct damage power are pretty good bets).

FFG has already shown that they're going to re-invent the wheel for each core rulebook, as AoR and EotE both share a broad number of talents and even a few specializations, and are likely to be sharing even more talents and specializations as the product line continues to expand. After all, the WH40K proved that it's a viable marketing strategy with breaking the different campaign types out into separate core rulebooks, so it's not surprising that FFG is going to follow a model that works, just as WotC has followed the D&D model of "Player's Handbook, DM's Guide, and Monster Manual" that's worked since the days of TSR.

But the Wh40k games were completely different scales. They are not compatible with each other. That's why people were worked that the Star Wars books were going to be the same way. My problem is that they sound like they are TOO compatible. And really I don't know anyone that would want to just stick with one piece of Star Wars like people would in WH40K And I bet if they could people would cross those systems too.

My problem is that they sound like they are TOO compatible. And really I don't know anyone that would want to just stick with one piece of Star Wars like people would in WH40K And I bet if they could people would cross those systems too.

First people are concerned that the power scale will be like 40K or like previous Star Wars games where Jedi out-stripped everyone else. Now there's concern they will be too compatible? What does that even mean? I think a large portion of the Star Wars game fans getting this system will buy in and mix and match. It doesn't make the game any worse for how they are doing it. I think the AoR beta release is allowing a lot of people to see that FFG is trying to make a game that will fit together nicely once all the pieces are out. I imagine F&D will be a book with a lot more "difference" from EotE and Aor in that it will focus more on the Force.

The last Order 66 Episode had an interview with one of the Devs. He said they will likely be adding mechanics for simplifying capital ship combat in a Beta update. This makes me happy. He also said that they put duplicate Specs in the game so people couldn't double specialize at a particular role. And Knowledge (Galactic Civil War) will be changing to Knowledge (Warfare).

And Knowledge (Galactic Civil War) will be changing to Knowledge (Warfare).

To be fair, I heard that as being more an "under consideration" than an actual confirmed change.

I do agree that something needs to be done to streamline capital ship combat, even if it's something as simple as saying "reduce the number of weapons in a battery by X to provide a free Upgrade on the attack check."

Maybe use 5 as the baseline, with every 5 weapons in a given battery giving the free Upgrade, with the trade-off that those five weapons don't get to fire, with those instances of the number of weapons not being fully divisible by 5 rounding down, to a minimum of 1 attack with 1 upgrade. Such as with the MC80 Liberty-type star cruiser having 12 turbolasers per battery being converted to 1 attack with 2 upgrades (12 divided by 5 is 2.4, drop the fraction for 2 upgrades), while a ship with only four turbolasers in a battery would get 1 attack with one upgrade (3 divided by 5 is 0.8, rounded up to satisfy the minimum of one upgrade). This way, there's still a big threat from having a major warship concentrate it's fire on a single target, but the GM doesn't have to make oodles of attack rolls either.

Might also want to consider re-classifying some of weapons load-outs on some of the cruisers and battleships as being "batteries" instead of just X number of weapons (such as with the Lancer-class frigate or Dreadnaught-class heavy cruiser)

My opinion only, but if you have EoE, I'd bet that AoR is mostly a sourcebook, because the mechanics are going to be the same, AoR will just have more equipment, ships, stats, etc, but the core game you know from EoE will be the same.

I'll end up getting both, but likely won't purchase the force one, as I truly don't like jedi save the few that exist. Call me a purist.

My opinion only, but if you have EoE, I'd bet that AoR is mostly a sourcebook, because the mechanics are going to be the same, AoR will just have more equipment, ships, stats, etc, but the core game you know from EoE will be the same.

And you wouldn't be entirely incorrect in that view either. Might not be what FFG intended, but it comes with the territory of having multiple game books use pretty much the exact same set of rules.

But there are folks that will have passed on EotE due to it's smuggler/fringe focus but want AoR because of it's focus on the setting's primary good guys. Likewise I'm sure there are folks that are waiting for F&D for much of the same reason, as they generally prefer playing Force-users in Star Wars, and right now the options are fairly limited in that regard.

Lets be honest, I would prefer a game which gave me what I needed to run any star wars game in any time period, but that isn't the way that FFG chose to go. Having said that, given their decision, I think that FFG have done a bang up job. So far I have not been limited too much as I am perfectly capable of kitbashing the system to run a different game. My current Eoe game is Old Republic era and seems to be going well.

Given their choice of release structure though I would rather each book have full rules than have to buy a book for the rules and then the book for the game I wanted to run. Were they to leave out the rules in AoR and FaD you would be forced to buy EoE to get the base rules which cranks the price up. At least with this model you only need to buy the book you are actually interested in playing.

Eldath

Lets be honest, I would prefer a game which gave me what I needed to run any star wars game in any time period, but that isn't the way that FFG chose to go. Having said that, given their decision, I think that FFG have done a bang up job. So far I have not been limited too much as I am perfectly capable of kitbashing the system to run a different game. My current Eoe game is Old Republic era and seems to be going well.

Given their choice of release structure though I would rather each book have full rules than have to buy a book for the rules and then the book for the game I wanted to run. Were they to leave out the rules in AoR and FaD you would be forced to buy EoE to get the base rules which cranks the price up. At least with this model you only need to buy the book you are actually interested in playing.

Eldath

The thing is there will always be something in one of the books that I would want to have in my game. The only way to have content shown in the movies would be to have every book and that's alot of wasted pages on repeated material. I would have been more happy if every book had it's own unique system depending on the subject. Then it's not such a hard pill to swallow if they also had repeated the rules. That's why I'm a bit happier when I heard they are going to put it some mechanics to deal with the huge capital ships.

I'm just thankful they are making this game. It seems pointless to criticize them for making a game they want to make.

The thing is there will always be something in one of the books that I would want to have in my game. The only way to have content shown in the movies would be to have every book and that's alot of wasted pages on repeated material. I would have been more happy if every book had it's own unique system depending on the subject. Then it's not such a hard pill to swallow if they also had repeated the rules. That's why I'm a bit happier when I heard they are going to put it some mechanics to deal with the huge capital ships.

Mind you, there already were some rules in EotE specifically for capital ships such as "minion group weapons" and the point defense rules, but I'm interested in seeing what said capital ship-specific rules are and if they're specific to Silhouettes in a way that sets it up for something "uniquely AoR"... after all, EotE already has capital ships, just on the smaller end (Silhouette 5 corvettes and Silhouette 6 frigates).

I dare say I think FFG would have ended up making more money if they released the AoR core first then the other two as source books for a lesser fee. I get the whole stand alone concept but from what I've seen it seems like most of us would have purchased all the books. But if they're all going to be $50 for a rehash of the same mechanics, give or take, I don't know. Seems like theyre almost inviting people to get the other books "less than legally" which is a shame because I purchased my core in the hopes of supporting a good company.

Just seems bizarre.

It is not lack of Jedi, it is Force being spread across the corebooks, EotE and AoR containing different bits, so if you want to play someone searching for lost Force secrets you have to get all corebooks, which to me makes almost nonsense; I really hope at least F&D will have ALL Force powers, talents and specialization available in the game under a single cover.

Samiel

Its highly likely that All Force related topics will be breached in the book dedicated to the force including those already found in the other books.

What FFG has really done, is create complete games and I personally think its very smart. I love Edge of the Empire, I'm not sure I will ever have any reason to buy any other books from this line. I got two packs of dice and the core book. I have a complete game, one that I can play forever. This is the perfect system.

There is nothing I hate more then buying a rulebook only to find out that in order to play the game I need one or two other books to actually play the game. That my friend, makes absolutely no sense.

Seems like theyre almost inviting people to get the other books "less than legally" which is a shame because I purchased my core in the hopes of supporting a good company.

Douchebags are always going to be douchebags. They don't need a reason to do this, they will anyways. Although I'm sure there are people that will point at this to rationalize such behaviour.

I just think it's a fallacy to assume that many groups are just going to take one book and do their whole game off of it. Star Wars is not like WH40K. I am willing to bet the number of people who are just going to play EotE and not use anything from the books will be less than 10%. So to me, they are wasting pages on almost all of their customer base. Granted this means they making the same money with less development but I would hope that wasn't the reason behind this decision.

If they were going to do it this way they should have tried a bit harder to make each game have different enough specialized rules to warrant the need for new rules and then have them synergize with each other. EotE could have had a merchantile system, AoR could deal with larger scale combats and PCs as leaders, and of course Jedi would their own system of defenses and power trees.

Mind you, there is speculation that AoR is going to go further along as the beta progresses... we're just waiting for that official word, admittedly.

They arent making three core rulebooks, they are making one core rulebook with three different colors and slightly different fluff.

I think that's the best encapsulation of this "three different games" nonsense I've seen yet. Well said.

It may be well said, but a well said falsehood is still a falsehood. Probably not intentional...

There are some mechanical differences.

Duty has different (but related) mechanics - one could in fact run with both Obligation and Duty in play; they have similar but not identical rules.

I don't consider equipment and adversary lists to be entirely fluff, and again, there are differences. Further, it has 2/3 different force powers, and quite a few different career options, plus 6 of the 8 races are not crossovers (Droids and Humans being the crossover races.)

Anyone who's played oWoD or Palladium games, anything labeled Powered By GURPS or the 40K RPGs has faced the same issue. It's a better model for the stores and for some of the player base to have the 30% overlap. It's the same kind of overlap as with, say, Palladium's Heroes Unlimited , TMNT , and Ninjas and Superspies - The same core rules but very significant non-overlap of the crunchy peripheral bits.

We get lots of specialist stormtroopers as adversaries, a much wider assortment of capital ships and fighters, a different force sensitive list. The real setting fluff isn't really in the beta book, but that's also going to be different.

It's going to be essentially the same 60pp of core mechanics, of 300+ pages of rulebook, and probably about 20 pages of shared fluff.

plus 6 of the 8 races are not crossovers (Droids and Humans being the crossover races.)

I agree with your post that AoR is significantly different, I'm just a bit nitpicky on accuracy. 5 of 8. Bothans are repeated as well.

It's going to be essentially the same 60pp of core mechanics , of 300+ pages of rulebook, and probably about 20 pages of shared fluff.

60 Platinum Pieces of core mechanics? That seems like a lot of value.

Even if they were to clean up the typos and fix the mechanical issues, I still wouldn't recommend that a friend buy this book if he already has Edge of the Empire. There just isn't enough new stuff. There are "New" classes and specializations, but they are reworked versions of the ones in Edge. The overwhelming majority of the talents are the same. While that's certainly worth something, it's not worth the $60 the final book will cost.

There's still hope and this is a beta, but there are some troublesome signs.

They added new ships. + (pretty good ships as well, pics would be nice but I assume that's coming)

They made new classes and specializations. + (The classes and specializations were a bit predictable, but that's probably just me)

They added two new Force powers. + (Enhance is very well done, the other is highly problematic)

Equipment is just a reprint. - (There is no excuse for this one. The criminal scum are using the exact same stuff as rebel and imperial soldiers? Really?) Shameless money grab.

Bothans are reprinted. - (not to disrespect Bothans, but we already have them and they aren't that important. How about something new and exciting?)

They couldn't even give us the Lightsaber skill. - (I'm not asking for all the Force stuff, but Luke is learning this in the first movie.) Epic Lame

So the good points and bad points balance, but I want the good points to exceed the bad.

The criminals using the exact same stuff as Rebel and Imperial soldiers isn't unheard of, much less in the precedent we have from EOTE where weapons are generic as hell...

The omission of the Lightsaber skill is presumably by design yet again and for the same reason.

"By design" isn't an argument. It's a cop-out.

No new equipment is likewise a cop-out. It's an explanation for doing nothing. I too can cut and paste. Fear my Ninja-like skills. Waahhh...

They want money? They do work. It's the basis of civilization.

Don't get me wrong. The work they did was quality work. I just want more for 60 bucks.

This is my favorite version of Star Wars RPG bar none. That doesn't mean they get a free pass to my wallet.

Not including the Lightsaber skill is cheap. Including the skill wouldn't mean that they have to create a class with access to it. GMs are still free to tell players to, "Suck it." The three versions are supposed to be interchangeable and we are supposed to be able to carry our characters forward into true jedi-dom. Well that means the ability to plan ahead. That means I want to know how the lightsaber skill works for real-sies, not some house rule.

FWIW, I think the differences between the game is in the style of the adventures you run with them. Look at the differences between the Edge of the Empire intro adventure and the one in Age of Rebellion.

The difference is that in EotE you play an independent freighter crew and set out to make a profit and outrun your past. In Age of Rebellion you play rebels fighting the Empire.

Now, that may not result in a vastly different core rulebook, but the supplements may well diverge more. Especially any adventures they put out.

Plus you can say 'does anyone want to play Age of Rebellion?' and people know more exactly what you mean than if you say 'do you guys want to play Star Wars? This is a not inconsiderable advantage.

Not including the Lightsaber skill is cheap. Including the skill wouldn't mean that they have to create a class with access to it. GMs are still free to tell players to, "Suck it." The three versions are supposed to be interchangeable and we are supposed to be able to carry our characters forward into true jedi-dom. Well that means the ability to plan ahead. That means I want to know how the lightsaber skill works for real-sies, not some house rule.

And a choice that was made from Day One of the EotE Beta, with the design decision to hold the Jedi-related stuff for Force & Destiny. That's been out there since FFG announced they were doing a Star Wars RPG back in 2012.

I'd be willing to bet that if FFG thought they could get away with it, they wouldn't have included any Force stuff in either EotE or AoR. But Star Wars fans being what they are, there would have been a huge backlash if there wasn't at least some nod to Force-users in either game. Same too with not including weapon stats for a lightsaber.

This is an old debate, one that posters like ErikB ranted and raved about during the EotE Beta. FFG didn't budge then, they're not going to budge now, especially as a Force & Destiny Beta is only a year away. if you don't want homebrew versions, then you're going to have to wait. FFG has their business plan, and a few forum posters whining about how they can't play Jedi from Day One of the game isn't going to make them change that business plan, particularly as the overall reception to EotE has been overwhelmingly positive, with the lack of Jedi in that book quite often being praised, particularly by players and GMs that were sick and tired of Jedi PCs dominating their d20 games.

The fact that FFG is waiting to tackle the one character type that has always caused balance issues in all of the prior Star Wars RPGs for last, to ensure they have a solid footing to work from, is a good thing, as it means we're not going to wind up with a bunch of ill-conceived or poorly thought-out material that wrecks what is such a great system.

as it means we're not going to wind up with a bunch of ill-conceived or poorly thought-out material that wrecks what is such a great system.

Oh no. The system is totally gonna fail under the strain of running proper Jedi so Jedi roleplaying is probably dead until at least the next edition of the system. Which seems to be what people wanted.

Still, X-Wings...

There's already an existing official rule for players and lightsabers: you use Brawn or Agility. Oh, you mean that you wanted skill ranks? Okay, go find a trained Jedi then. Oh, you're complaining that they're mostly extinct? Mostly extinct doesn't mean entirely...

Donovan Morningfire is voicing exactly what I mean by the lack of a Jedi career or specializations being "by design", and if it's true that " the overall reception to EotE has been overwhelmingly positive, with the lack of Jedi in that book quite often being praised, particularly by players and GMs that were sick and tired of Jedi PCs dominating their d20 games ", then that's all the more reason for FFG to keep right on doing what they're doing.

To be quite honest, this sounds like most Saga sourcebooks.

Speaking of " Jedi roleplaying "... I actually prefer this to having a Jedi career or Jedi specializations at all .