Playing around with some character concepts, and had this thought, particularly in light of the most recent Order 66 podcast and their discussion of the Age of Rebellion Beta.

In short, Chris and Dave raised a concern that Knowledge (Galactic Civil War) was perhaps too broad of a skill, since it could be rolled for anything that involves the Empire or the Alliance, even if such information isn't strictly military in nature, and begins pushing the other Knowledge skills to the wayside, particularly in an AoR campaign where the major adversary most of the time is the Empire.

So how about changing the skill to be Knowledge (Warfare) instead? In this case, the skill would cover those aspects related to war, such as Imperial war strategy or Alliance deployment methods but also general tactical planning and famous/noteworthy battles. It won't tell you much about how the Imperial legislature works (Core Worlds) or Imperial methods for detaining criminals (Underworld), both of which could be easily covered under Know (Galactic Civil War) as its currently written.

It also opens up the skill for usage in games that are not set during the Rebellion Era, such as the SW:TOR MMO setting or Legacy Era.

I like it. It would also answer the question of what skill is used for tactics . (Asked in the EotE forum)

agreed

Knowledge (Tactics) sounds nicer , anyway I agree.

I prefer Knowledge (Warfare) because it could then cover military history and strategy as well. If it's just tactics then you'd need other skills to handle those.

I prefer Knowledge (Warfare) because it could then cover military history and strategy as well. If it's just tactics then you'd need other skills to handle those.

Yeah, I definitely like that Knowledge (Galactic Civil War) includes things like major battles and events, key personages, and other elements of information and intel wrapped up in it, beyond just the tactical aspects of war and combat.

I also don't know if I agree with O66's fear that this would be a "god skill," even in a Rebellion Era game. I think that it covers the same amount of knowledge and know-how that skills like Knowledge (Core Worlds) or Knowledge (Outer Rim) do, given that those two skills include things like culture, fashion, trends, geography, and the like.

But yes, for the purposes of re-skinning AoR careers into other eras, I think renaming the skill to Knowledge (Warfare) is a fine choice. Not sure if it needs to be changed for the AoR book itself, though.

I would vote for Knowledge (warfare) also. It could still be used to see of the character knows something about a certain historic battle along with tactical knowledge.

I really like this change. Has it been submitted?

But yes, for the purposes of re-skinning AoR careers into other eras, I think renaming the skill to Knowledge (Warfare) is a fine choice. Not sure if it needs to be changed for the AoR book itself, though.

That depends on what the final AoR book actually says; I admit that I was thinking "why not Knowledge (Warfare?)" as soon as I saw Knowledge (Galactic Civil War).

That depends on what the final AoR book actually says; I admit that I was thinking "why not Knowledge (Warfare?)" as soon as I saw Knowledge (Galactic Civil War).

Although I'm on the side of the generic Knowledge (Warfare) skill, I don't see FFG doing this. Each book is era specific, so AoR has Knowledge (Galactic Civil War). While it makes sense to have a tactics/strategy skill, it appears this is being handled more by the talent trees. If FFG makes lots of money and eventually makes non-classic era RPG books, we may see a Rise of the Empire sourcebook with Knowledge (Clone Wars), for example.

That depends on what the final AoR book actually says; I admit that I was thinking "why not Knowledge (Warfare?)" as soon as I saw Knowledge (Galactic Civil War).

Although I'm on the side of the generic Knowledge (Warfare) skill, I don't see FFG doing this. Each book is era specific, so AoR has Knowledge (Galactic Civil War). While it makes sense to have a tactics/strategy skill, it appears this is being handled more by the talent trees. If FFG makes lots of money and eventually makes non-classic era RPG books, we may see a Rise of the Empire sourcebook with Knowledge (Clone Wars), for example.

What knowledge skill in EotE is era specific? I disagree with your assessment. Also we're talking about adjusting a knowledge skill from being about an era (which is kinda of weird because in theory as it's ongoing, either you were there when it happened or you wouldn't know about it due to the cell like nature of the Rebels) to a specific subject matter to help define its use better and get more use at the table.

I think the naming of Knowledge: Galactic Civil War seems to specific as far as an Era type skill goes, at least to me. It seems more like something a historian would have from years later who looked back and was doing research into this specific time period and not a skill somebody who is living here currently would have... I mean, only the future historians would look back on this time period and call it the Galactic Civil War but the people living and fighting during this time period... they wouldn't be calling it like this in such historical terms.

Changing it to Knowledge: Warfare though puts the focus of the skill on War and to that, an extension onto Tactics and Military Strategy... or maybe call it Knowledge: Military Warfare/Military Strategy or something like that... but if they wanted to have a skill represent knowledge of the Empire and Rebel Alliance during this time period than maybe they should have two new skills... Knowledge: Empire and Knowledge: Rebel Alliance and these could represent having the general knowledge of what these two main factions are as well as specific military tactics pertaining to each... but I really like the general but good Knowledge: Warfare (& Tactics).

I think they should eliminate this skill altogether and just use Education or one of the other knowledge skills currently in use, it could essily be applied depending on what the player is trying to understand. This sort of thing could exist in all the Talent trees available in AOR i.e. Boost die or minus to difficulty for Education checks if Information involves any sort of Military question (Ranked).

Well, it seems that the idea of renaming Know (Galactic Civil War) to Know (Warfare) is one that the FFG staff, or at least Andy Fischer, seems pretty keen on according to his recent appearance on the Order 66 podcast.

Given that I usually run in the Old Republic era, I really would rather see this become (Warfare) so as to be Era-neutral.

Even if it didn't change, you are free to just call it that in your own games outside of the Galactic Empire era. That's probably what I'll do.

Given that I usually run in the Old Republic era, I really would rather see this become (Warfare) so as to be Era-neutral.

I believe that was one of the points that Andy mentioned as being a reason to change it.

Unless FFG loses the license shortly after Force & Destiny is published, I suspect they're going to branch out into other eras eventually. And they've already shown that they're not adverse to re-using viable material (duplicate specializations for instance) rather than just coming up with something new for the sake of having something new.

Heck, i wouldn't be surprised if later EotE supplements added military-themed specs to some of the careers that included a Knowledge (Warfare)* skill as one of their bonus career skill listings.

*presuming the change is officially made of course.

Unless FFG loses the license shortly after Force & Destiny is published, I suspect they're going to branch out into other eras eventually.

We shall see. There's always a lot of cross-media buzz marketting to SW licensed products. With regard to RPGs, the 3 d20 versions coincided (not conincidentally, I suspect) with the 3 prequel movies. The SAGA Old Republic sourcebook Ebays for hundreds of dollars simply because Bioware's game was hugely popular. Etc. F&D will get a huge boost from EP VII, and I suspect much of the setting will overlap already, but it's not obvious what other settings will remain popular 2-3 years down the road. Old Republic may return to its pre-Bioware esoteric status, who knows...

We shall see. There's always a lot of cross-media buzz marketting to SW licensed products. With regard to RPGs, the 3 d20 versions coincided (not conincidentally, I suspect) with the 3 prequel movies. The SAGA Old Republic sourcebook Ebays for hundreds of dollars simply because Bioware's game was hugely popular. Etc. F&D will get a huge boost from EP VII, and I suspect much of the setting will overlap already, but it's not obvious what other settings will remain popular 2-3 years down the road. Old Republic may return to its pre-Bioware esoteric status, who knows...

The first WotC Star Wars RPG (OCR) came out about a year after The Phantom Menace. The second one (RCR) was released around the time of Attack of the Clones, and was done by Lucasfilm mandate, with JD Wiker and crew deciding to take that as a golden opportunity to update the OCR and fix a lot of various issues. Revenge of the Sith came out when WotC had the product line "on indefinite hiatus" with only a few web articles by Gary M. Sarli being released on the website to mark the event. Saga Edition was released when there really wasn't anything major on the horizon for Star Wars except possibly the Force Unleashed video game (which they did have a sourcebook and minis expansion for so as to tie into the big media event).

As for SW:TOR MMO, I'm inclined to consider the enduring popularity that the KOTOR games (particularly the first one) had years after they were released, to the point that WotC's KOTOR Campaign Guide sold out incredibly fast and commanded some pretty high prices on eBay years after it was released (not so much now given FFG's new hawtness being on the shelves). So odds are good that FFG would be able to get some mileage out of book (either a core rulebook or just a regular supplement for F&D) that's set in and around the KOTOR/SW:TOR eras.

Legacy Era (particularly that of the comics) is another one that's got some popularity, due in large part to it being a mixing pot of elements of prior eras, such as Jedi Order (that wasn't totally wiped out), the Sith, an evil Empire (Krayt's version), a struggling Rebel Alliance, an Empire that's not evil (Fel's version), as well as action on the criminal fringe. So it's another possible setting venue that FFG could explore, particularly as an example of how to take all three core rulebooks and combine them into a single campaign setting.

Legacy Era (particularly that of the comics) is another one that's got some popularity, due in large part to it being a mixing pot of elements of prior eras, such as Jedi Order (that wasn't totally wiped out), the Sith, an evil Empire (Krayt's version), a struggling Rebel Alliance, an Empire that's not evil (Fel's version), as well as action on the criminal fringe. So it's another possible setting venue that FFG could explore, particularly as an example of how to take all three core rulebooks and combine them into a single campaign setting.

Not to mention the Imperial Knights. That was my favorite part about the Legacy Era.

So odds are good that FFG would be able to get some mileage out of book (either a core rulebook or just a regular supplement for F&D) that's set in and around the KOTOR/SW:TOR eras.

Given that the SAGA KoTOR book was essentially a translation of the video game's IP to the tabletop, my only concern about a potential KoTOR supplement is them amping-up the Force to comic book/video game power levels when they've been such good developers so far.

"For the last time, please reconsider this idea of yours to make a Force Unleashed sourcebook..."

+1 to this. lol

See, I'm open about my move for the Force Unleashed story , but equally as open about my hatred for how OTT it was portrayed. Starkiller should not have been that powerful - he could have made just as much of an impact, been just as much as a threat, without being able to toss around capital ships and take on both Vader and Palpatine.

So, in my universe - whenever the story is used/referenced - it's done from the point of view that Starkiller was a powerful Force wielder (Force Rating 5-6), but that he was not as powerful as the games make him out to be.

Actually, I suspect FFG won't have any problem in doing a sourcebook about KOTOR/SWTOR and keeping everyone on the same power base as they would be in the Rebellion Era.

Much as people might bash the system, Saga Edition did pretty will in that regard, not making Force-users inherently any more broken, as everybody got new toys to play with, be they talents, feats, or prestige class talents. Note that I said "inherently" in that prior sentence, as the core issue in Saga Edition with how skill check modifiers interacted with defenses at lower levels wasn't altered by any of the Saga Edition sourcebooks. Same with Force Unleashed sourcebook, which actually got a lot of complaints because you pretty much couldn't replicate what the video game allowed, at least not with any consistency since the means to activate those powers (Destiny Points) were quite rare (only 1 per level), and that book was really more of a Dark Times sourcebook given all the neat stuff that non-Jedi PCs got.

I wonder if FFG might be using the upcoming Suns of Fortune as a sort of rough barometer for how a setting-specific sourcebook that's not packed with new crunch in the form of careers and talents will sell.

Much as people might bash the system, Saga Edition did pretty will in that regard, not making Force-users inherently any more broken,...

My experience with SAGA was that you were either a Force user or scenery.

As for FFG, if they could focus on OR content that's not from Bioware, it would probably be worth picking up...

Much as people might bash the system, Saga Edition did pretty will in that regard, not making Force-users inherently any more broken,...

My experience with SAGA was that you were either a Force user or scenery.

That was ultimately true with just the core rulebook, so it's not a fault of the KOTOR or Legacy Era material, but instead a fault of the game design (namely Skill Focus providing such a huge bonus and being available at early levels).

Though I've heard of folks making Carth Onasi from the first KOTOR game into a dual-pistol-wielding god of death simply by tricking out his pistols and picking the two-weapon fighting talents, or Mission being a stealth-based assassin to make Altair of Assassin's Creed proud. The second game was a bit more of the "not a Jedi? You don't really matter all that much," but that was a different company. I've also heard from friends that play SW:TOR that BioWare did a pretty good job of keeping the non-Jedi/Sith classes both fun and competitive with the Force-users, though a part of that does come down to preferred play-style.