Defined by the corebook the Minions are treated as one character. So it is one shot a bunch of Stormtroopers are firing at one PC. I guess it is a matter of game balancing, cause a minion by 6 members (I guess it is the maxed number because of getting a rank V for skills) will be extremely strong and the possibility not to succeed is against zero. But it also feels a bit distorted 6 Troopers are only gaining one target although there are 3 or 4 guys shooting at them.

My idea is to modify the rules a bit and give the minion the chance of a second or third shot referring to the advantage points they gain per roll (like a two handed attack or auto fire). Maybe to throttle it down just having a second shot by rolling a triumph targeting a second player nearby the first target.

What do you think? Would that be too difficult for my players or are there any other good ideas for multiple shots?

cu

Gargi

Our GM is looking at it as well. However, he doesn't plan on changing things up until we have quite a bit of play time under our belt.

His initial thought is just to break up a group of 4 minions into two groups of two regardless of their proximity to one another. We will see though.

If you have a minion squad of Stormtroopers, I'm sure one could have a light repeating blaster, or heavy blaster rifle, or some other autofire weapon. That should allow you attacks against multiple targets.

But really, if you want 6 Stormtroopers to shoot at 2 targets, you should have 2 groups of 3 instead of one group of 6. That way, you're still getting two proficiency dice, and can shoot at more targets. There's nothing in the rules that require you to have ALL minion-level opponents in one group.

Also, 6 is not the maximum number of minions in a group. If you have 7 or 8, you can loose 1 or 2 members of the group before loosing proficiency dice. Any in excess of 6 is a "buffer," if you will. However, that would be a massive group to kill. I would break it up into several smaller ones.

-EF

First, you aren't limited at 6 minions (actually you should be saying 7, see below). While that is where the dice max. out (7), it isn't where the Wound Threshold of the minions max. out.

A group of 7 Stormtroopers has a Wound Threshold of 35 (7x5each). For each Stormtrooper in a minion group above 1, they gain a skill rank in their group skills. So, at 6 over (7 minions total) you have a skill level of 6, the maximum allowed. When that group is firing Ranged (heavy) with Agility of 3, it thus rolls 3 Yellows and 3 Greens. That is the best skill wise it can do. BUT, you could still have a group of 10 Stormtroopers with 50 Wound Threshold that keeps rolling 3Y/3G until 4 of them are dropped.

Multiple shots? You can easily already do this without a house rule. You have 6 Stormtroopers that can shoot once using 3Y/2G and have 30 Wounds. You can easily divide that group into two groups of 3 Stormtroopers each. Each of those smaller groups would shoot using 2Y/1G while having 15 Wounds. Want even more shots? You could actually split your 6 Stormtroopers into 6 different shots (singles) that roll 3G and have 5 Wounds. If you want more shots, you can take them, it's up to you as a GM to decide if more rolls and thus slower play is the way you wish to go. You could also find out that 6 Stormtrooper minions acting alone is quite weaker then 6 Stormtroopers acting together, even if they only shoot at one target each round.

Another way to think of this is you have a group of 6 Stormtrooper minions. They have the ability to concentrate fire on one person with devastating affect (roll better dice). Or, they can take more shots but with less dice.

The minions are used to make it easier on the GM (less rolling) and quicker while making groups of weak opponents more powerful when working together. It's brilliant. Many of us can probably recall early D&D issues of having 100 1st level Goblins attack a 5-man party of 10th level PCs. It was boring and took forever as the players were basically untouchable (Goblins needed a 20 to hit) and the players massacred them....very slowly. I always thought, shouldn't these weak opponents realisticaly be able to swarm over and overcome the players? Minon rules in this narrative system allow some bite for groups of minions while increasing the speed of play with far less rolls and note-taking by the GM (Goblin #85 has 2 HP remaining, and it's now his turn to shoot his bow, roll 19, miss. Goblin #86 you are up...).

I break minions into groups based on the number of valid targets (e.g. 8 minions and 4 PC targets means 4 groups of 2 minions each). As the PCs get tougher then the number of minions they face can increase.

For those that have players that can't swallow the narrative aspect of this game yet, here is a simple method of play that doesn't require any house rules.

Your players like maps and mins. Fine. Map out the starship corridor for the upcoming fight. Get 6 minis for the 6 Stormtroopers they will be fighting down this corridoer. Place these 6 Stormtroopers on the map. Those 6 Stormtroopers have 30 Wounds total, so note that someplace. Whenever your players cause 5 wounds or a critical, knock over a Stormtrooper mini. When the Stormtroopers shoot, you have several options. In the first round perhaps they see the Trandoshan player with the light repeater as a big threat and all 6 fire at him using 3Y/2G. The PC drops, but only after causing 12 Wounds of damage thus taking out 2 Stormtroopers. The next round, 4 Stormtroopers are standing and facing 2 players that are charging down the corridor towards them. This time you decide to have 2 Stormtroopers fire at each player rolling 1Y/2G each.

That is completely acceptable using the minon rules as is and might sit better with some groups used to d20 versus narrative play.

The easier way to think about it is from the narrative. A group of 6 stormtroopers come into the room or down the corridor. They open fire on the party, whereever they happen to be, but only manage to sneak a hit on one of the players (GM rolled dice for the minions against that player). So, while the roll is against A PC, the narrative shows the troopers cutting loose on everyone and just getting hits against one person (or more if from autofire weapons).

The easier way to think about it is from the narrative. A group of 6 stormtroopers come into the room or down the corridor. They open fire on the party, whereever they happen to be, but only manage to sneak a hit on one of the players (GM rolled dice for the minions against that player). So, while the roll is against A PC, the narrative shows the troopers cutting loose on everyone and just getting hits against one person (or more if from autofire weapons).

Also, from a narrative perspective, you don't have to assume they are all shooting at one target. They could be shooting at everyone, but the way the mechanics work, they're only going to hit one pc at a time, designated by you

Also, from a narrative perspective, you don't have to assume they are all shooting at one target. They could be shooting at everyone, but the way the mechanics work, they're only going to hit one pc at a time, designated by you

But that's the exact notion the OP had issue with. If you have an issue with this (as he apparently did), then it's pretty simple to have your group of minions capable (but less so) of hitting (not just narratively shooting at) more then one PC per round without changing the RAW at all. I'm not saying I will do this by default, but I could without slowing play or breaking rules if I thought it was important for me or my players.

Thanks for all replies! I like the idea splitting the group for the case intending to shoot at more different targets cause it would preserve the game balance by reducing the blaster skill. That makes sense.

I have 4 PCs e.g. challenging 6 troopers. The first PC shoots at the group and the 6 troopers open fire at him. The realize more opponents and 2 troopers decide to shoot at my second player. So I split the group to 4 + 2 in the following round. For narrative play a triumph also could mean a further hit to another PC anyways

I've selected the target in a few ways: Rolling Randomly, using what made sense, and picking a non-injured player to spread the love around a bit. I've never used a group of more than 4 (not as a rule, just never happened to drop one in), but this is a good point. Thanks to the OP and the responders for this insight.

I've selected the target in a few ways: Rolling Randomly, using what made sense, and picking a non-injured player to spread the love around a bit. I've never used a group of more than 4 (not as a rule, just never happened to drop one in), but this is a good point. Thanks to the OP and the responders for this insight.

I really like the idea of randomly picking which PC to target. I'll probably try this out next time I play. I might roll a d4/d6/d8 assigning each player in the target area a range of numbers and see who gets hit.

I don't think allowing a version of the dual weapon fighting rules for minions to attack two different targets (or twice) is game breaking. It increases difficulty and this should level that playing field, perhaps also remove one upgrade due to numbers?

Combat is already pretty dangerous. I would consider very carefully before doing anything to make it tougher.

To clarify: If a minion group is allowed to attack twice, either same target or two different ones, the difficulty for them would increased once as per normal two weapon fighting. Now, you could also remove one upgrade from extra minions, so a group of 4 minions would only receive 2 and not 3 upgrades, when doing this, as a nod towards an idea of different salvoes or something. You could also rule that they could only apply this if attacking different targets, so no double hit on the same target.

Of course, doing it this way makes minions better, if that is actually needed... not sure.

I've selected the target in a few ways: Rolling Randomly, using what made sense, and picking a non-injured player to spread the love around a bit. I've never used a group of more than 4 (not as a rule, just never happened to drop one in), but this is a good point. Thanks to the OP and the responders for this insight.

I really like the idea of randomly picking which PC to target. I'll probably try this out next time I play. I might roll a d4/d6/d8 assigning each player in the target area a range of numbers and see who gets hit.

Which only works if all the players are in the same situation and not getting to apply different boost or setback dice to a given roll for environmental and talent conditions.

Also, the larger the minion group, the more difficult they are to fight. For example, you could have 12 stormtrooper minions. If you group them into 2 groups of six, they will be rolling lots of proficiency dice, and will be much more dangerous than if you had them as 4 groups of 3, or even 6 groups of 2.

As such, you need to consider the power level of the characters they are fighting as to what would be the best minion group size for your players...

Also, the larger the minion group, the more difficult they are to fight. For example, you could have 12 stormtrooper minions. If you group them into 2 groups of six, they will be rolling lots of proficiency dice, and will be much more dangerous than if you had them as 4 groups of 3, or even 6 groups of 2.

As such, you need to consider the power level of the characters they are fighting as to what would be the best minion group size for your players...

Actually, I like the example you give and would generally divide them up by how many PCs were present. 12 Stormtroopers against 4 PCs = four groups of 3, if one PC goes down - and, by some black miracle none of the stormtroopers do - they reconfigure into three groups of 4 next turn. If another PCs arrives to join the fight, they reconfigure again. This assumes that all of the stormtroopers are within a single maneuver of one another, and I'd have them spend the maneuver to "Redeploy" in such a mannner..

Interesting idea... although it would make the encounter progressively harder with the fewer PCs you have. If it's intentional, then go for it. I'm a bit of a softie when things start going south for the players.

I think I'd try to make the minion groups operate in sizes that makes them equal in shooting skill to what is about average or even high average in the party.

I'm not sure I quite understand why anyone would want minion groups to attack more than once. If you as a GM feel that they're not providing your players with enough of a challenge you might want to consider either having more groups, as several people have suggested, or using Rivals instead of Minions.

The nice thing about the "divvy up minions as necessary" method is that it has a bit of a sliding scale between how the attackers' fire is divvied up.

Remember that this an abstract, narrative based game system. When a PC "attacks" once with a melee weapon, it represents a series of feints, parries and thwarted blows as well as the telling one. Similarly a group of minions is filling the air with blaster fire. The one attack roll is a quick abstract of the one telling shot that results from overwhelming the hero with withering fire.

Also, the larger the minion group, the more difficult they are to fight. For example, you could have 12 stormtrooper minions. If you group them into 2 groups of six, they will be rolling lots of proficiency dice, and will be much more dangerous than if you had them as 4 groups of 3, or even 6 groups of 2.

As such, you need to consider the power level of the characters they are fighting as to what would be the best minion group size for your players...

Actually, I like the example you give and would generally divide them up by how many PCs were present. 12 Stormtroopers against 4 PCs = four groups of 3, if one PC goes down - and, by some black miracle none of the stormtroopers do - they reconfigure into three groups of 4 next turn. If another PCs arrives to join the fight, they reconfigure again. This assumes that all of the stormtroopers are within a single maneuver of one another, and I'd have them spend the maneuver to "Redeploy" in such a mannner..

This is a really good compromise for groups for whom simply reallocating minion groups on the fly might be an issue. It'd also be extremely easy to do as a narrative as well.

Scenario: Three PCs are attempting to evade Imperial patrols looking for them when they're spotted by a squad of six Stormtroopers. A firefight breaks out in the alleyway. The Stormtroopers open up as three groups of two in a show of overconfidence - they are the Empire's elite, after all. The PCs take cover and return fire, downing two of the Stormtroopers. Finding the opposition tougher than expected, the sergeant makes the call/spends the maneuver and consolidates into a single minion group of four, intent on either downing the PC who took out their comrades or focusing on any PC trying to close the distance to them, while calling for reinforcements.

I'm a fan of tactical decisions fitting a story and making even minions seem independent and competent, and this seems to do so pretty well. From an initiative standpoint, I'd play it by ear - in the scenario I just outlined, I'd probably have the NPCs lose their highest initiative slot since they're hunkering down and taking a defensive stance, but if they were rallying for a charge to try and overwhelm a single PC at a time, I might nix their lowest slot instead.

For a reversed situation (a large number of minions splitting up as directed after a fight has started) I'd generate new initiative slots based on Discipline rather than Cool or Vigilance instead. All that training (and the bonuses from Command/Leadership-based talents) should have a direct combat application, after all.

Thow a rival level enemy to command the minions/fire at the party. Don't neglect the stormtrooper seargents of the galaxy.