Hey guys, my name is Steve Simoni from the DC meta. I frequently troll these forums.

I'd like to make a few comments about melee that proves why FFG did a bad job at handling the melee restricted list ahead of GenCon.

The art of seduction restriction + flank was the result of my telling everyone at the DC regional (and I won't name names on who spilled the beans) (Cory from NC: DC has it out for your ass) that everyone from DC was going to collude and bring Siege decks where turn 1 I played fear and my friend at the table played art of seduction. This of course was a giant joke and would not even work very well. Let me reiterate. This is not even good! Also, If FFG really wanted to fix this epic battle problem (or as I say, perceived problem) they should have taken care of it in other ways.

So now that you are all here and reading this, I thought it would be nice to tell you some other combo decks DC (and by DC I mean me) has come up with this year. I want to tell you this so that you can also bring the deck to gencon and win. Actually I'll just give you one, but from this one you can get the idea and just run with it and build the other combo decks.

Deck 1 - Balerion (the location) and Hellholt engineer with the alliance agenda or with house of dreams. If your friend is sitting across from you and you both set this up, you win turn1 pre-plot phase.

You can just run with Deck 1's idea and imagine all the other combos with hellholt engineer there are. Not too mention all the other combos we have created over this summer of unemployment. Pro tip: Don't bring a rush deck to this year's Gencon. You'll lose. I promise you, you will lose.

Alright, so, if FFG were smart. They would actually ban out the combos and we could move on with our lives.

Last note - I am moving to San Francisco in a few weeks. How is the meta there? and can I join?

Sounds like fun, wish I could make it.

I should provide an example decklist. If we all come with this list to GenCon, it will be legendary. We can do turn one wins if we are at the tables together (FFG please note I am joking, do not preemptively DQ me. I love this game).

Please note - the house of dreams version may be better than this version.

House

Targaryen

Agenda

Alliance

3 dragon thief

1 sellsword deserter

3 Company of the Cat

3 Long lances

1 rhaegal

1 Drogon

1 viserion

1 dragon knight

3 refugee of the plains

3 refugee of the citadel

3 Hellholt engineer -------- important to include this for the combo

1 brown ben plumm

1 rhaegar targaryen ----- actually proved to dominate in playtesting with this deck

3 Orphan

3 Watchful Servant

3 greenblood merch

1 ellaria

1 daenerys targaryen

locations

3 balerion ------ the other piece of the combo, duh

1 temple of graces

3 summer sea

1 street of steel

1 shadowblack

1 street of sisters

1 roseroad

2 palace fountains

2 flea bottom

2 the brimstone

1 qhoyne

events

2 nightmares

2 paper shields

2 the only game that matters

plots

1 fortified position

1 take them by suprise

1 summoning season -- get the hellholt eng

1 building season -- get balerion

1 condemned by the realm -- this plot is f**king awful but whatever

1 into the lists

1 shadows and spiders

Ahh. Cory must be the Dennis of the NC meta!

Also, I got tickets for Gencon. Steve Simoni, we will party.

I made no comments until after the restriction. Besides, Justin is the one who explained it in detail.

I do understand that all of this is quite tongue-in-cheek.

However, just to make sure everybody is aware, here are the relevant portions from the Tourney Rules:

But the real point I am trying to make, is that I have a bunch of broken melee decks--this is actually just one of many. And FFG did nothing in the FAQ to stop this nonsense.

(Quote from Steve on agotcards)

I used to agree with you - I thought that the onus was on FFG for making melee unabusable. Upon thinking of it more though, there are tons of *fun* melee tournaments at highly competitive tournaments (look at some of the huge fields in Europe) where they have yet to report abuses of this nature. If the only reason something is different here in North America is because of one group of players "ruining" it for the rest, the problem lies more with that group of players.

The quote for "team play" WWDrakey cited above is sufficient for me to trust that the Judges will approach this sort of behaviour with an eye towards preventing behaviour as blatant as the above (as you say, you're joking!), or less blatant but that still falls in the category of "approaching an event as a team or block of players, with the intent to manipulate the field so as to gain advantage".

I've shared meals, cars, melee tables and hotel bills with the DC crowd - you're some of the strongest players this game has to offer (and incredibly accomodating!)- there's no need to rely on gaming the system to win the game.

You guys are missing the point. We aren't coming to GenCon to collude this year in the same way that there was perceived collusion at worlds last year.

The indisputable fact is that FFG got wind of some jokes we made about art of seduction and flank at a bar after a regional, and took what they saw as the necessary steps to fix that problem. But didn't the FAQ already fix that problem by saying no collusion in the post worlds FAQ update? Why restrict flank + art of seduction when they could already just DQ everyone who shows up and does that **** all day? Does the restriction even stop the epic battle problem? Of course the answer to these questions are all banal--so I won't even answer them here.

I guess what I find upsetting is this: Control decks in melee get linearly or exponentially better when there are more control decks in melee. A control deck can still win on its own if it has some rush too, but if there is another control deck at the table, regardless of if you know the person outside of the game or not, there is a better chance for both of you if you work together. Rush decks have more of a passive element to them, like a bara rush deck, where you are just trying to collect all your power turn 1 and win. So the point then, is that if we brought 14 different, completely different control decks, and just played straight up with no collusion--I still feel there would be perceived collusion, just by the nature of what control does. So I guess, our safest bet is to all put our heads in the sand and play rush decks with little tools in the deck for 'team play'. Just so we don't get DQ'd.

And furthermore, this whole thing was a joke--decklist included. Can you not see this? And don't sit here and quote the rulebook to me like I don't know it. I know the rules; I sit around and play this game all day.

As an alternative on what I think would fix melee, well the new scoring system almost got it right, but should have gone further. 50 points for first place, 3 points for 2nd, 2 points for 3rd, 1 point for 4th. (this is an example). The concept is that first place is all the matters. I would be less likely to play for second, if first place was the only place that mattered. And anyone that has played melee competitively knows that you tend to have to play for second if there is nothing else you can do about it. Playing for second or third is not collusion if that is your only option.

Also, anyone who doesn't have a melee deck should play that one I netdecked, above. If you get to marshall first and get hellholt and balerion out, you can get around 8 power in the marshalling phase just from people using reducers like street of sisters.

So, you can probably win the game on your own with that deck above. (I know I have in some melee playtesting). You should see the fights that ensue when player A tells player B to not use their reducers only to have player A then use his reducers when it is time to marshall.

It is awesome.

So the point then, is that if we brought 14 different, completely different control decks, and just played straight up with no collusion--I still feel there would be perceived collusion, just by the nature of what control does.

Here I agree with you, as well as the "epic battle problem" - these are cases where it becomes very easy for the judges to perceive collusion where none existed, or feel unwarranted in calling collusion where some existed. This would be a scenario where I could certainly see a lingering ill-will towards the DC-meta clouding judgement of players willing to cry foul, or judges willing to listen - although I suspect its unlikely to affect any other meta as they can neither muster the numbers to shape the melee game meta, nor have reputations for doing so.

The safest bet is, of course, for the DC meta not to approach melee "as a meta", rather than

all put our heads in the sand and play rush decks

You seem like a wise man Istaril. I do not believe we have met, but I will buy you a beer at GenCon when I meet you (if you are going).

I just want to reiterate for anyone reading this--Everyone in DC is playing for themselves in melee this year. You will see that come tournament time. No one is approaching this like a team sport this year. We all love this game very much and no one wants to get a DQ or Ban.

You seem like a wise man Istaril. I do not believe we have met, but I will buy you a beer at GenCon when I meet you (if you are going).

I just want to reiterate for anyone reading this--Everyone in DC is playing for themselves in melee this year. You will see that come tournament time. No one is approaching this like a team sport this year. We all love this game very much and no one wants to get a DQ or Ban.

We met in Roseville at worlds last year (I stayed with DC in the room next to yours, unless I'm mistaking you for someone else) - and I'll take you up on that beer at Gencon!

You seem like a wise man Istaril. I do not believe we have met, but I will buy you a beer at GenCon when I meet you (if you are going).

I just want to reiterate for anyone reading this--Everyone in DC is playing for themselves in melee this year. You will see that come tournament time. No one is approaching this like a team sport this year. We all love this game very much and no one wants to get a DQ or Ban.

We met in Roseville at worlds last year (I stayed with DC in the room next to yours, unless I'm mistaking you for someone else) - and I'll take you up on that beer at Gencon!

Oh yeah.. well then at least you know that this is all in good fun (a little pot stirring a head of gencon is fun!). I am not even hiding anything or trying to be deceitful. I'll hand you my melee deck the night before the tournament if you want to look at it and tell your friends. Now joust, well that is a different story...

And definitely the beer!

I made no comments until after the restriction. Besides, Justin is the one who explained it in detail.

I can confirm and second this. Personally I like to think that FFG now follow the Lord of Light and saw everything in the flames.

To the NC guys -- I don't care who did or did not do anything, this is all just fun for me. I hope to see you at gencon so we can hangout. Dusty, you better bring some good decks to this one.

I was at that dinner also, and it was pretty clear it was a joke. I think the entire table was laughing over it. Pretty odd situation.

Dusty, you better bring some good decks to this one.

So, Targ and Martell? It's back to control time!

Next time wait until the night before to post your deck! That way I can steal it before it gets banned.

Busted!

So Kr4ng are you happy with the update to the FaQ? i know they missed a few combos (inf challange and inf icon removale) but do you think it was enough to make melee fun this year? I would just hope that no would play any of this other inf combo's.

Though the issue of seig getting stornger by simple someone else at the table playing seig is still thier which is too bad. Give us your new thoughs.

Yeah darknoj, I am happy with the melee FAQ. The joust FAQ is sad for me right now, because there isn't one dominant deck that I can play and feel comfortable with winning (so I guess that means it is really good too).

Joust is going to be a bit of rock paper scissors, so that is pretty balanced, which means that I hope to get a few lucky matchups in the swiss with the deck I select.

As far as melee goes--siege will be strong, and there are some obvious counter plays too. As far as the combos--I don't think anyone will be playing them as they are too fickle and can get owned by very common cards. I will most like play a rush deck so people don't think I am colluding with other people playing control.

I think the best deck for melee is one that benefits from your opponent playing epic battles while you yourself can actually play better events that actually do stuff.

To the NC guys -- I don't care who did or did not do anything, this is all just fun for me. I hope to see you at gencon so we can hangout. Dusty, you better bring some good decks to this one.

I know, I was trying to play along. Besides, I now got to be famous for 5 seconds.

You're too much fun for the California meta, it seems, since they have yet to reply to you.

That's because Cali is lame. If Bruno is a snake, then the rest of Cali is something super lame...like a Sloth or a Squirrel.

That's because Cali is lame. If Bruno is a snake, then the rest of Cali is something super lame...like a Sloth or a Squirrel.

But Kristen Bell adores sloths, and Kristen Bell is awesome, and therefore sloths are awesome. Squirrels on the other hand are cute rats with fuzzy tails.