Do you ever roll dice for players? For example, an Intuition check to see if someone is lying to them.

I'm considering doing this in some circumstances - only, I think I'll roll the challenge and misfortune dice and let the players roll their good dice. Again, only in situations where not being sure of success might be fun.

I do that very rarely but am thinking about doing it more often. I have good role players who do not meta game though.

rolls like intuition sometimes demand the player not knowing the complete outcome. lets look into skullduggery first:

the player checks for traps in the dungeon and rolls a 3d roll. he generates 2 challenge and 1 bane symbol and now knows that he hasn't found any. i had some unexperienced players once and they didnt wanna continue down the aisle because they failed the check and knew they would run into something.

since that point i have always rolled the purple dice in such checks for my players and let them tell me the outcome of all the "good" dice.

for intuition it is most important because that way they have no chance to tell whether or not they have succeeded. if the NPC is lying and they check on it, all they hear from me after they rolled their intuition is "he is telling the truth" or "he is lying". that makes it alot easier for the player to roleplay in my opinion.

however i once thought of rolling a comlete roll at some point for players, for example to check their observation when they get stalked, so they dont see it coming.

but i never actually went through with it, i enjoy it too much to have them make random checks every once a while to confuse them ;P

I think it's probably something all GMs should have at their fingertips: Preroll about 5 for each he players so they don't suddenly get suspicious when you hide behind your screen and roll suddenly.

Observation

Intuition

etc.

I don't like making secret rolls for the PCs. There's plenty of mechanics that give players some degree of control over their rolls, and if the GM rolls without the PCs knowing that you're basically undercutting some of their character power. Also, given the constant incremental Advancement in the system, it's relatively easy for the GM to forget that a PC had a particular option the player is unlikely to overlook if you ask them to roll.

Examples: Stance, Fortune Points, Assists, and the rerolls granted by various blessings, career abilities (gambler, etc) , and some runes and items.

Fortune points in particular seem a sticky wicket to me, since they don't necessarily represent the character doing or knowing anything in order for the player to use them. They're just fate and narrative power, which certainly seems applicable to intuition and observation checks.

My table includes a Runesmith and a Ranald Initiate turned Gambler, so it's really a no-go with my current group.

Related thread with brainstorm list of ways to keep metaknowledge about Observation checks from interfering in the mystery / scenario: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/86947-observation-tests/

I have a level of trust with my players such that if the fail an intuition roll and I tell them that their PC believes something to be a certain way - they will play it that way. The player is not the character so to speak, so I always let them roll everything so they can feel control and then they can act according to the world as the character sees it.

r_b_bergstrom: very good point about the fortune points! I haven’t really thought about that before and I think it is crucial to allow players to distribute their good fortune themselves also in such occasions.

yeah, i also totally forgot about the fortune points! you're right

as soon as i get the new players to get a hold of the system ill let them make the checks anyways. but it takes time to understand that you as the player are not the PC

but thx for the input!

edit: you can still roll the challenge dice, so that way you still have control over the outcome without the player noticing