Wouldn't it be better to move Deny the Witch ability to Psyniscience skill instead of Evade?

Imagine an acrobat. He would be invariably good at Evading, as it is one of its two signature skills (the other one being - unsurprisingly - Acrobatics). But does it makes him good at resisting Psychic powers?

Yes, his WP-based Evade would be lower than AG-based one, but still... is it actually right (logic-wise) to assume that one can learn how to evade physical and mental blows at the same time?

No, I would keep it where it is because its

a) more intuitive- as it helps with the dodging of physical psychic powers as well.

b) that part is still tied with WP, even though it can also be swapped out for agility.

c) for the death-cult assassin, I would translate this as "meditation techniques" or some such.

Psyniscience is a skill only available to psykers- you want to give this standard ability to the other classes as well, or its a considerable nerf for them and a considerable boost for psykers.

Honestly?

IMHO. what stands out as really strange is the fact that when you learn to jump and wheel out of the harm's way you somehow improve your ability to deflect psychic powers at the same time.

In case of psyniscience-tied technique it is explainable - you learn to better assess the flow and ebb of the Warp and therefore can better anticipate and counter the enemy psyker's antics. And please kindly notice even non-psykers have access to Psyniscience on -10 level, so technically they can still Deny - just in a limited capacity, which is right. After all, an average Mic or Joe can't become great at denying anything; not because they're slow-witted or weak-willed, but because they have no idea what are the signs to look for in the first place.

After all, an average Mic or Joe can't become great at denying anything; not because they're slow-witted or weak-willed, but because they have no idea what are the signs to look for in the first place.

Wouldn't ranking up the skill imply training and studying to look for said signs? And Acolytes are hardly an average Mic or Joe.

Wouldn't ranking up the skill imply training and studying to look for said signs? And Acolytes are hardly an average Mic or Joe.

That is true, of course. But my point is, the training required for Dodging / Parrying and Denying is by its nature very different, and progress in one does not guarantees progress in the other.

But that's true for parrying and dodging between each other as well.

Though I do understand your point, from a balancing perspective, I wouldn't touch it.

In terms of roleplaying, it could be justified as a Mister Miyagi type training.

"Hone your mind to parry hits and evade them! Meditate to increase your skills!"

WAIT.

I just realized something.

How to fix this.

Remove this thing completely.

Why in the world is this even a talent, now that I am thinking about it?

Dodging a fireball could easily be in the "Dodge" Category, and resisting psychic powers that would require it are just a plain old WP test.

Perhaps they wanted to nerf agility slightly by making this a WP test?

Parrying and Dodging use the same move algorithms at least. The core difference between them is what appendages you use - arms for parrying, legs for dodging (usually) - but the basic moves are the same, or at least have the same roots. Denying is something else entirely, IMHO.

I agree, for monk-like characters it is, maybe, possible to use evade in this case... but for an Underhive gung-ho? C'mon, really?

As for the balancing issue, think on it from this perspective: you play as a psyker and so invested a lot of XP in psychic techniques and spent no small roleplaying efforts to justify how you learned them. All other player types just bought good guns (availability of Good Guns in the present Armoury aside ) without any great difficulties and spent their XP on advances in characteristics and skills. Then it comes to a shootout - that they can dodge your Witchfire powers and parry your Flaming Whatevers, that's all explainable and expected. But then they use the very same Evade +30 to deny your hard-won mind control powers...

That sounds unreasonable and unfair actually. Some saving throw from psychic powers MUST exist, I fully agree with this, but shouldn't it be... I don't know... more WP-oriented?

I actually agree with youa t 100%, I just didn't consider the possibility of removing it and keeping it as a straight up WP test forced by the power itself instead of a decision to use a skill by the player.

This is a passive ability which doesn't need to be associated with the evade skill.

That actually solves it I guess

Evade the witch costs 1 AP. So it is possible for a group of players to wear down that demons APs and finally get a hit in.

Your changes will remove the pysker from this type of game play.

(although I do agree that "evade" as a term sits poorly with psychic stuff)

Evade the witch costs 1 AP. So it is possible for a group of players to wear down that demons APs and finally get a hit in.

Your changes will remove the pysker from this type of game play.

(although I do agree that "evade" as a term sits poorly with psychic stuff)

I am sorry< I am not quite sure what you mean-

Evade the witch does cost one AP, but its the player that spends it. Basically to dodge.

What if the player doesn't have enough AP- does that mean he can't roll an opposed WP test to stop a power from affecting him?

If the answer is no, than the skill is redundant and unnecessary, seeing as dodging a fireball is more intuitively done with "Dodge".

If the answer is yes- Psykers got considerably deadlier.

Evade the witch costs 1 AP. So it is possible for a group of players to wear down that demons APs and finally get a hit in.

Your changes will remove the pysker from this type of game play.

(although I do agree that "evade" as a term sits poorly with psychic stuff)

I am sorry< I am not quite sure what you mean-

Evade the witch does cost one AP, but its the player that spends it. Basically to dodge.

What if the player doesn't have enough AP- does that mean he can't roll an opposed WP test to stop a power from affecting him?

If the answer is no, than the skill is redundant and unnecessary, seeing as dodging a fireball is more intuitively done with "Dodge".

If the answer is yes- Psykers got considerably deadlier.

The answer is yes: If you do not have an AP to spend on Deny the Witch you can not perform it.

That strikes as particularly weird- a psyker playing at the end of the initiative ends up devastating the group.

Whats the advantage in playing first?

You can't risk going all out and attempting to finish off the "boss" because you cant kill him in one hit, and then his mooks would tear you to pieces, and he's massively advantaged in playing last, after everybody have spent all of their nifty action points.

This was already sort of a problem in OLD DH, but now its ten times so because the powers that require an opposed WP are especially deadly if the players can't resist them...