So, we all agree that weapons need to somewhat scale and the arbitrary damage on some of them would need some change.

We've had a pretty good propose of having different weapon-qualities allow for a different kind of bonus.

These are few suggestions from the forums so far:

Accurate- Add Observation Bonus to Damage instead of STR.

Flexible/ Fast- Add Agility Bonus to Damage STR.

Any others? If anyone if smart enough to think of something for toughness, that stat needs love

Also, it seems that the weapons being based on AP leads to breaking down the game at higher levels, and make Agility even more of a God-stat.

I've got a proposition. Instead of focusing on the "Attacking" faster part, we can go with the "attacking longer" feel, and give toughness another niche.

Its unusual- but hear me out. As the system is, and same as Dark Heresy, you could essentially swing a huge war-hammer all day and never get tired.

What if [melee] weapons generally had "actions points to attack" instead of RoA, with "Light/Fast/Small] weapons costing 1 point, medium/regular requiring 2 and heavy melee weapons requiring 3.

Now, the mechanic would be that "jamming" on a melee attack would instead inflict a level of fatigue. Maybe the heavier weapon have a stat akin to unreliable, where they would "jam" faster, and cause more fatigue when they are swung.

This would make things much more streamlined, and give toughness a lot more importance for long lasting combats against multiple foes.

What do you guys think?

"Jams" on melee leading to Fatigue is a lovely idea. I like it a lot.

I like where this going! The fatigur idea seems awesome to me. I think flexible weapons could really use agility bonuses also. The whip power for instance is linked to a fast and precise wrist movement. It has more to do with ab than sb. The perception bonus could be used for accurate ranged weapons, giving a needed edge to the snipers who have been nerfed with the new rules.

I really like the fatiguing idea for melee jams.

I also would like to see AP just dropped completely. It's an unnecessary stat that could easily be tied to the damage a weapon does as well as good use of the felling or melta quality. This would eliminate the weirdness of things like bolters not being able to penetrate a robe, while still allowing the weapons and armor to be balanced the way the designers want. It just eleminates the suspension of disbelief needed currently.

Adding perception bonus to accurate weapon damage is a wonderful idea. I also think adding agility bonus to flexible weapons is great.

I do a have a problem with agility bonus determing the rate of attack. It might work for low levels, but it scales with levels, which non of the other weapons does. So AB wepons will clearly be a preffered by high levels.

Ability scores should NOT determine rate of attack, there must be some other way. Maybe put it into talents, which was really what swift attack and lightning attack did in the old days. Those talents can have an agility requirement or whatever.

Swift attack and lightning attack are still there.

Maybe there's something to the rules that were missing in that battle can only attack once per round regardless of the weapons rate of attack?

I know psychic powers prevent you from attacking, so maybe we've just all missed the line that says you can attack only once.

Nope, checked it again. Attack at rate of fire/rate of attack of weapon.

I believe this is likely to get fixed asap, or I would hope so.

You can only take a single attack action per round unless you are dual wielding. That attack can generate as many hits as your rof allows though, which in male can be quite a bit, especially unarmed.

Swift attack and lightning attack are still there.

Maybe there's something to the rules that were missing in that battle can only attack once per round regardless of the weapons rate of attack?

I know psychic powers prevent you from attacking, so maybe we've just all missed the line that says you can attack only once.

Nope, checked it again. Attack at rate of fire/rate of attack of weapon.

You can only attack once per turn(page 197), but since that attack has a rate of fire dependent on how many AP you spend I'm not sure if it makes much of a functional difference. Except it stops people from scoring cumulative damage with their own previous attacks per turn, of course, since they can only attack once.

What if [melee] weapons generally had "actions points to attack" instead of RoA, with "Light/Fast/Small] weapons costing 1 point, medium/regular requiring 2 and heavy melee weapons requiring 3.

Now, the mechanic would be that "jamming" on a melee attack would instead inflict a level of fatigue.

Maybe the heavier weapon have a stat akin to unreliable, where they would "jam" faster, and cause more fatigue when they are swung.

the first IS already in the system, e.g. the Eviscerator (which is pretty heavy) has a RoF of 1/4, which means that you have to use ALL 4 AcP to make 1 hit.

the second is an excellent idea !

the third... not so sure, heavy weapon already take up all AP and they 'just' inflict one wound, albeit a heavy one. So it would be unbalancing vs the BS weapons.

HOWEVER I can imagine that some weapon get the 'unwieldy' quality (e.g. rank 1 weapons) that does exactly that: inflict 1 level of fatigue on a roll of 91+

the first IS already in the system, e.g. the Eviscerator (which is pretty heavy) has a RoF of 1/4, which means that you have to use ALL 4 AcP to make 1 hit.

Which of course means that you can't actually use it if you charge into melee.