So, since I start with 4 AP, want to fire my autopistol, that costs me 4 AP.

Let's say I get shot back during the same rounds, cost me 1 AP to dodge so I can't dodge? Do I understand it correctly?

That's right.

BYE

Am I correct in understanding that basic enemies can't be killed by a single shot unless it had righteous fury now?

I like the abstraction for speeding up combat, but when we get to the stage of vehicle weapons it may get a little silly without houserules?

EDIT: Incidentally as a big fan of the previous 40k RPGs (DH and particularly Rogue Trader being my favourite of all RPGs) I must say I'm generally a big fan of a lot of the changes thus far. The action point system seems to add some decent tactical elements to combat, and some of the minor things like Subtlety are really nice touches.

So, since I start with 4 AP, want to fire my autopistol, that costs me 4 AP.

Let's say I get shot back during the same rounds, cost me 1 AP to dodge so I can't dodge? Do I understand it correctly?

That's right.

BYE

But you don't have to use 4 AP on your auto pistol, you can use 1 AP and hit with max 2 hits (Rof of 2 multiplied with 1 AP), and save 3 AP for dodging? If you spend 4 AP you can hit up to 8 times? Or did I miss something?

I do so wish the gaming industry would abandon the Microsoft Windows model of new releases every five years or so and make rulesets to last. But hey, I guess that feedback ain't useful neither.

Clap, clap, clap, clap.

I'm not digging the removal of Wounds or the new AP system. This combat overhaul seems unnecessary, really.

Wounds: every time someone is hit, we now need to check one of nine tables. Just in a standard gunfight with a normal party, that's eight people on the field, leading to an awful lot of page-turning. It also removes the way of the old "unimportant NPCs just die at 0 wounds" rule that sped things up so much.

AP: Why? The Full/Half/Free system worked just fine, and if everyone has 4AP then it's still just as homogenous. It seems arbitrarily 'different for the sake of different.'

Also, AP is both the points spent in combat AND the value of your armor. That won't get confusing quick.

I like the new system for CharGen, I like how Malignancies work, I like the new Perils tables. The only issue I have is the combat overhaul.*

*The combat overhaul also makes bringing in weapons from other game lines much more difficult.

Going to PM.

BYE

Wounds: every time someone is hit, we now need to check one of nine tables. Just in a standard gunfight with a normal party, that's eight people on the field, leading to an awful lot of page-turning. It also removes the way of the old "unimportant NPCs just die at 0 wounds" rule that sped things up so much.

AP: Why? The Full/Half/Free system worked just fine, and if everyone has 4AP then it's still just as homogenous. It seems arbitrarily 'different for the sake of different.'

I suggest you jump ahead to the adversaries section. It describes the different types of adversaries and how they act in combat both from a taking wounds perspective and from an Action Point perspective.

And yes, AP and AP is going to get confusing!

BYE

I'm calling it now, if this is popular they will make 2nd editions of the other lines. *sigh* The cycle is beginning fast.

I really hope they do a revision of Deathwatch. With the best will in the world, the current version is terrible.

So, since I start with 4 AP, want to fire my autopistol, that costs me 4 AP.

Let's say I get shot back during the same rounds, cost me 1 AP to dodge so I can't dodge? Do I understand it correctly?

That's right.

BYE

But you don't have to use 4 AP on your auto pistol, you can use 1 AP and hit with max 2 hits (Rof of 2 multiplied with 1 AP), and save 3 AP for dodging? If you spend 4 AP you can hit up to 8 times? Or did I miss something?

Well, the way I read it, it takes 2AP to fire a single shot: as the autopistol got a RoF of 2, and not 1/2, so I cannot fire it less (as a matter of speaking) I must spend 4 AP to fire said autopistol, meaning I cannot make any evade action if I get shot at during the turn.

The best way to look at AP in regards to shooting is how many shots you get for each AP spent.

So a weapon that has 1/2 means you get half a shot for every AP spent. As you cannot fire half a shot, you therefore must spend 2 AP to fire the gun once. A gun with a RoF of 2 allows you to fire 2 shots for a single AP.

BYE

Going to PM.

BYE

Honestly H.B.M.C, I do see your point... or I did before you deleted it ... but I still think that saying " I don't like these changes, because for X, Y, Z reason I feel they make for a bad roleplaying experience " is valuable and necessary feedback. I would hope that FFG is prepared to accept that, if they get enough feedback like that, they might need to go back to the drawing board a try again.

I recently read a long post from the lead game designer for the other RPG line which I invest in rather heavily in which he outlined their development process... and a big part of that was a willingness in playtest to realize that things were just so out of whack they needed to go back to the drawing board. Yes, it drags out the release schedule but it results in a better product at the end of the day.

Therefore, FFG will get from me honest and complete feedback and I would encourage everyone to do the same. I will be first to agree that " This suxs! " is not valuable feedback. However, thought out and clear reasons why we feel certain rules changes do not provide a positive experience are good and necessary. I hope FFG will listen to them.

I simply don't see the need for the new Action Points system, and feel it's a bad idea because of how much harder it makes cross-line work. This might be a deliberate marketing move, but I love how with a little elbow grease guns and NPC profiles can be brought over from one line to another.

It really just seems unnecessary.

The best way to look at AP in regards to shooting is how many shots you get for each AP spent.

So a weapon that has 1/2 means you get half a shot for every AP spent. As you cannot fire half a shot, you therefore must spend 2 AP to fire the gun once. A gun with a RoF of 2 allows you to fire 2 shots for a single AP.

BYE

Ah ok; I got confused with the way they wrote the 1/2 type weapons in the armoury section. so an autopistol with a RoF of 2 cost only 1 AP to make up to 2 hit on a target..well ok, makes more sense now.

I do so wish the gaming industry would abandon the Microsoft Windows model of new releases every five years or so and make rulesets to last. But hey, I guess that feedback ain't useful neither.

Clap, clap, clap, clap.

It's a necessity, for a couple of reasons.

The first is that core rulebooks sell far more than supplements, and new core rulebooks sell more than older ones. Further, even if they're successful, long-standing product lines with lots of products often dissuade new customers by having a higher perceived cost of entry. A clean slate every few years is advantageous for the publishers, as it allows them to make the money they use to fund the creation of the products they sell...

The second is that as a game line progresses, the accumulated weight of errata and supplements grows. Sooner or later, a game will collapse under its own weight - too many books to look through, too much material to reference. This ties into the idea of a cost of entry - if you've played a game from the outset, you'll have become familiar with all that material as it was released, over the course of several years. If you're coming to it new, it always seems like you have a big pile of heavy books to work through.

A ruleset that has no supplements stops making money - the supplements maintain interest established by the rulebook. A ruleset that has a regular stream of supplements eventually needs to wipe the slate clean and start afresh. It's a catch-22 situation.

So, since I start with 4 AP, want to fire my autopistol, that costs me 4 AP.

Let's say I get shot back during the same rounds, cost me 1 AP to dodge so I can't dodge? Do I understand it correctly?

That's right.

BYE

But you don't have to use 4 AP on your auto pistol, you can use 1 AP and hit with max 2 hits (Rof of 2 multiplied with 1 AP), and save 3 AP for dodging? If you spend 4 AP you can hit up to 8 times? Or did I miss something?

Well, the way I read it, it takes 2AP to fire a single shot: as the autopistol got a RoF of 2, and not 1/2, so I cannot fire it less (as a matter of speaking) I must spend 4 AP to fire said autopistol, meaning I cannot make any evade action if I get shot at during the turn.

RoF is shots-per-AP spent, as already covered. As I see it, it's a way to add granularity to actions - allowing you to choose how much you move and attack more finely than in previous games. The ability to spend 3AP on movement and still snap off a couple of shots from a light weapon allows more mobility, and you also have the flexibility to do things like move, aim and shoot all in one turn.

Whats scary is you can now, with rather little penalty, move, shoot, move.

As long as my Ab is enough to get me fully into cover (e.g. around a corner and out of LoS), I could 1 AP move, spend 2 AP on attacking, 1 AP to move back, and not worry about reactions.

Run and Gun doesn't help this either. At least it makes Overwatch a heck of a lot more useful in a drawn out encounter.

Plus Overwatch is about the only way to interrupt with something like that. Delay can't interrupt an opponents turn now.

Like you said it in another thread: Agility is the god stat of DH 2. :-)

Whats scary is you can now, with rather little penalty, move, shoot, move.

What do you mean scary? I should think this would encourage assaults. It's kind of like how the Evade issue does not actually invalidate low-Agility builds; it just means cover is important for tough guys while agile characters can afford to move around more freely.

Whats scary is you can now, with rather little penalty, move, shoot, move.

What do you mean scary? I should think this would encourage assaults. It's kind of like how the Evade issue does not actually invalidate low-Agility builds; it just means cover is important for tough guys while agile characters can afford to move around more freely.

Its more a further advantage to a high agi character. In the above example, I could also reduce it to using 1AP to attack, and save 1AP for evasion. Or it could be using 1AP to move, 2AP to shoot, use Run and Gun to benefit movement wise, and camp 1AP for evasion. It still gives a strong bonus to having a high agi. Whereas toughness, while useful can't provide anywhere near as useful a benefit.

True Grit is useful, but not that useful.