I don't think it would be appropriate for a horde to make an all out attack.

When attacking, the individuals making up the horde are all doing different things, coordinating every individual to make an All out attack is kind of impossible.

The horde's melee lethality comes from the number of attacks they can make, the ability to hit all enemies engaged, and the bonus damage dealt.

I don't think it would be appropriate for a horde to make an all out attack.

When attacking, the individuals making up the horde are all doing different things, coordinating every individual to make an All out attack is kind of impossible.

The horde's melee lethality comes from the number of attacks they can make, the ability to hit all enemies engaged, and the bonus damage dealt.

I tend to agree, but there is the caveat that the rules say a Horde can use all of its melee talents -- which would include Furious Assault.

Then again I don't like that All Out Attack seems to be the default attack in combat _against_ a Horde, since Hordes can't be dodged or parried either so you might as well swing like a maniac. Which gives a +20 on top of Horde Magnitude.

The characters can´t dodge or parry a horde. Thats why they always go all out, if they don´t have something better to do (swift attack, movment, etc.)

The same is true for a hord. At least they can do something before they are flamed into olivation.

It is an interesting conundrum.

Player never dodges/parries hordes so no big deal for all out.

The only benefit all out gives is +20 to attack as full action, and as a requirement for certain special actions.

Can only make 1 attack against 1 target.

Hordes cannot dodge/parry so again the same as players.
Same +20 benefit.
With all out the horde also makes 1 attack; but due to horde rules, still gets to hit as many enemies as are engaged with them.

This last bit is one area where I take issue. A horde should not get such a benefit against multiple targets.

Secondly, the attacks of a horde represent numerous individuals attacking the same target simultaneously. Not every individual of the horde could possibly be going all out at the same time. If a number of the attackers can't go all out, they shouldn't all benefit from those who might.

May be only 6-8 creatures of the hord may attack a singel Character.

But I guess, if I am one of 8 attackers I would go all out, because the enemy is allone and will most probaly not attack me but someone else.

The differences in allowed abilities is that Space Marines cannot become a Horde and so cannot ever get those abilities/skills. Hordes cannot ever be Space Marines and so can never gain those abilities/skills/talent. Interesting question but I think it's a dead end. Hordes can do the things they can, and Space Marines can do the things they can. Imparting an ability or skill from a Space Marine into what is allowable by a Horde is crossing a line. If the Horde has rules, skills, abilities and special rules....that is ALL they get. If there is something in any of the books that is available to Space Marines either as given, learned or trained abilities/skills/talents....then that is ALL they can get.

The differences in allowed abilities is that Space Marines cannot become a Horde and so cannot ever get those abilities/skills. Hordes cannot ever be Space Marines and so can never gain those abilities/skills/talent. Interesting question but I think it's a dead end. Hordes can do the things they can, and Space Marines can do the things they can. Imparting an ability or skill from a Space Marine into what is allowable by a Horde is crossing a line. If the Horde has rules, skills, abilities and special rules....that is ALL they get. If there is something in any of the books that is available to Space Marines either as given, learned or trained abilities/skills/talents....then that is ALL they can get.

But it specifically says that they can use melee talents, which means that they must be able to use Multiple Attack, and it is specifically said that they cannot Aim (for whatever reason), this being the only action that is specifically excluded, implying they can use the others.

Maybe Overwhelming is a stand-in for All-Out Attack/Furious Assault.

Hordes cannot aim because they are a mass of flailing limbs and such. Which ones would aim? How many? Ones from the second row deep or deeper? How effective would its aim be if it is parried partially or not or even more by another of the flailing limbs? How would one determine degrees of self parrying a flailing limb?

Overwhelming would be far more logical than All Out or Furious Assault, IMO. A Space Marine doing such would be analagous to becoming the embodiment of the Tazmanian Devil with weapons diving into the fray to exact as much damage as he could as an individual becoming a complete weapon.

Hordes cannot aim because they are a mass of flailing limbs and such. Which ones would aim? How many? Ones from the second row deep or deeper? How effective would its aim be if it is parried partially or not or even more by another of the flailing limbs? How would one determine degrees of self parrying a flailing limb?

Good catch on not aiming. If a horde cannot aim, then it is deffinately not capable of all out attack. For very much the same reasons Korvis pointed out above.