Hi!

I'm an experienced roleplayer, having roleplayed for 10 years+, and have tried out most of the big settings (D&D, WoD, DH) as well as having played the first and second editions of WFRP.

Now that the third edition has matured with lots of supplements, which I generally enjoy having, my group is considering trying it out.

I do have a couple of questions though:

- I really like playing a mage in rpgs, how is the magic in this edition? I really enjoyed it in dark heresy and the previous editions of WFRP.

- What are the pros and cons compared to second edition?

- Would you recommend the edition?

Thanks in advance

What is that you are lookig for in a spell system. If you want dozens of different spells per level for each of the different schools of magic, like you might see in other systems, then WFRP3 will disappoint. If you want a mechanically fun system for channeling magical power and then releasing it in the form of various spells, you'll enjoy WFRP3. There's a nice array of different colleges of magic, each with different philosophies, powers, and missions which really make the game iteresting.

I have no experience with 2e, but have enjoyed 3e much more than the first edition of Warhammer that I played in school. The setting is just as delicious, but then you've got the mechanical game engine of WFRP3. I thought I would hate a game with different cards and numerous board game components. Story and roleplay are why I game. But to my surprise, I have a blast playing 3e.

So, not knowing you, it's difficult for me to recommend it or not to you. What I can tell you is that I have roped about a dozen different people into trying it. Even though it's completely unnecessary, half of them loved it so much they went out and bought a copy of the Core Rules for themselves. The other half still ask to play regularly and personally I've never seen anyway who played that walked away from the game disappointed. It's a great game.

I personally like magic (and blessings) in this edition of warhammer. The mechanics and the spells themed to different orders makes playing a wizard very unique and fun.

As Ghazi I have no experience with 2nd edition, but comparing WFRP 3ed to most other games I'd say the pros are:
The Dice - these are great and helps roleplaying a lot.
The Cars - All the rules the players need are in front of them.
Corruption and disease rules - These rules really add a corruption, mutation and disease in a great way (the rules are covered in Winds of Magic and Signs of Faith).

The cons would be that it takes up a lot of space on the gaming table and that you can't play it outdoors in the summer (as cards, bits etc will fly away in the slightest wind).

I can do nothing but recommnend the game wholehartedly.

Thank you for good answers!

Most appreciated

Can't really add much other than an overall endorsement. This game has knocked my socks off! It is the most innovative rpg I have ever seen. It also happens to be the most enjoyable.

In fact, this game is so much fun to GM, most other systems seem quite bland now. It has me wanting to run other stuff using the system - Game of Thrones is on my list

The narrative dice, stances, actions, progress trackers are all so much fun to play with.

I could keep going on about all the things that make this the best game out there - especially for a GM, but I'll stop for now lol

Sinnara, take a look at the discussion in this recent thread: http://community.fantasyflightgames.com/index.php?/topic/82514-4-years-in-what-do-you-and-your-fellow-players-think-of-wfrp/

People are saying what they think of the game now it has 4 years. I think you'll see a lot of good and some bad sides to it.

The system is really different than second edition. It's another approach entirely. It's really hard to compare if you see it this way. The greatest con to me is that third ed doesn't bring such rich materials regarding the description of the world. But if you are used to second ed, than you can always take a look at your supplements from it, they are still really valuable.

I think WHFRP 3ed has managed a new step in the line of narrative mechanics, i.e. mechanics that are integrated and help narrative, instead of hindering it. This is specially true to the dice, but an experienced roleplayer will notice that the Action Cards, even if they have a gaming feel to it, introduce something interesting: since they have the lines of success described in them, it's really easy for the GM to let the players themselves narrate a lot of their successes.

Thanks for more insight

I think I will try it out, but just have a couple more questions

- I play in a rather large group, with 1 gm and 3-5 players. Does the core set support this?

- Which premade adventures would you suggest running?

- Which supplements are the most valuable? I've seen that you can buy players guide, gms guide etc. on its own, rather than from the core set. Are those different from those you get in the core set?

Thanks again for answers, I really appreciate them

- I play in a rather large group, with 1 gm and 3-5 players. Does the core set support this?

A large group would be 7 players for which you would probably want to get a 2nd core set. You can use the core set just fine otherwise, but download the basic action sheet to replace the basic actions (check the support page). They were just trying to sell more boxes when they said that it was made for about 3 players.

- Which premade adventures would you suggest running?

Start with the one that comes with the boxed set. Then do The Gathering Storm.

- Which supplements are the most valuable? I've seen that you can buy players guide, gms guide etc. on its own, rather than from the core set. Are those different from those you get in the core set?

If you wanted to buy a hardcover, get the PLAYER'S GUIDE. It has all the careers and spells from Winds of Magic and Signs of faith.

The hardcovers aren't really doable because you still need dice. They are better as supplemental material (especially the Players guide). If you get the creature guide, you get a lot more creatures (obviously) with all of their abilities, but you will want to download a "suggested special actions guide"

Start with the Core set and run the adventure therein. Then decide if you want to get anything else. There are 3 wizard and priest careers in there so there's enough for your player(s) to get started.

One last thing: don't get too hung up on rules and definitions. The game is MEANT to be fairly freeform so don't get worked up if a player forgets to recharge and action, or adjust his stance, or how the healing rules work (but mark that page).

Some things you'll want to know:

Exhaustible talents have a recharge of 4. That means that INCLUDING the round you use it, it starts at 4.

Healing draughts heal one way and overnight resilience checks heal another way, and first aid checks heal yet another way. Mark the page.

Also, if you want some ideas on how much stuff costs, you can check out "Liber Fanatica 8" and/or my house rulebook in my sig.

best

jh

Sinnara, it largely depends if you'll want to use all the components or if you and your group prefer a more traditional approach to RPGing and prefer to cut the components out. In the last case, I would recommend just buying the three hard cover books, and get the dice - it's kinda hard to find them nowadays, so I suggest at least two sets of dices.

But I'll tell you that the components bring a lot to the experience, even if you decide to let some of them out. And I've been a narrative focused roleplayer for more than 15 years. I loved Warhammer second edition and had a lot of suspicions about third ed. The components won me, and I use them as great narrative tools, going freeform including with the rules.

In this case, buy the Core Set to understand what to look in the game. I would follow Emirikol's suggestions. I don't actually know how it is to come into the game right now, I just bought everything once they were releasing it - I understood soon this is one game I wanted to have all they came up with. But in the beginning getting the Core Set and one or two Adventurer's Toolkit helped a lot. But I didn't bought the Player's Box.

- I really like playing a mage in rpgs, how is the magic in this edition? I really enjoyed it in dark heresy and the previous editions of WFRP.

As people have said above, it's a bit different. All actions and spells are based on the same card system and counters for reuse. Setting-wise, wizards are not trusted by most common folk, or nobles for that matter. Heck, some wizards don't generally trust other wizards either. But following one of the 8 schools of magic is the only approved way of learning, and being allowed to use, magic.

- What are the pros and cons compared to second edition?

The positives:

+Where the mechanics in previous editions were like dark D&D with a different combination of dice, 3e is more like classic World of Darkness dice pools, but with symbols instead of numbers, helping roleplaying and coming up with descriptions

+All the fiddly bits mean you don't have to share a Player's Guide, since the rules are on each action card, and some even have two different actions depending on stance. The career card covers everything the player is allowed to know about the job.

+Stances (I like 'em)

+Each expansion tends to come with new cards, either expanding your pool or adding new insanities, mutations, actions, tokens etc. you can reuse later, and you don't have to cross-reference another book to include these in your campaign

+The third edition follows a different path of expansion, with more background material and mechanical stuff than actual adventures

The negatives:

-It's really geared towards using those fiddly bits, although you can buy the guides and try to play like a classic RPG. You're still going to need to count how long actions have been active etc.

-It's not really possible to directly transfer earlier edition characters

-NPCs follow a slightly different system than PCs, complicating translation further

-The **** dice have been sold out for an aeon, while 1e/2e could just use regular polyhedrons

-You may grow attached to all the fiddly bits, and start collecting expansions by the caseload

-Lose one special action card, and you're screwed

-Somewhat related, there is only one of each special action for specific careers

-The third edition follows a different path of expansion, with more background material and mechanical stuff than actual adventures

- Would you recommend the edition?

Wholeheartedly. You can take the 1e/2e stories and recreate the NPCs if you want, too so if you have a nice pile of books they're not useless

Here are my personal recommendations for all the stuff you need:

*The core set covers the needs of 3 players, although the GM and any extra players would need the aforementioned action sheet. Start with this, and get the rest of this list if you like the game.

*Each Adventurer's Toolkit helps with the essentials for one player more, but I recommend only one, and players diversifying when it comes to careers

*(EDITED: Dice and cards are from the GM's Vault, which I picked up dirt cheap) The GM toolkit isn't worthless, although the screen is (content-wise; it still shields you). Extra dice is nice, and you also get more of the basic action cards. So then each player could have a set, and the GM can use a printed sheet.

*The Winds of Magic is essential for more variation in magic, and being able to play any of the eight schools of magic.

*If a player wants to play a priest, the same goes for Signs of Faith.

*Every print on demand pack is good to have (perhaps even alongside only the core box), but get at least the wizards and priests desirable. I would say get Shallya and Sigmar, no matter what the players play (you may have NPCs coming to their aid, if they're completely hopeless). With just the core set you have only a handful of spells for each, and the wizards and priests in the core set only get about 5 new spells in the dedicated expansions.

*If you're deep enough into buying 3e that you have all of the above, the Creature Vault is next. Paper figures and actions for a metric crapload of critters. The Player Vault pretty much replicates the core set pieces. The GM Vault adds dice, another set of the 8 basic cards, and more counters, conditions, wounds etc. I rate it as actually useful; the extra tokens you get with most expansions anyway, therefore the PV isn't so good.

If you now have all of the above, there is no way back.

Chaos gods:

*The Winds of Magic cover corruption and Tzeentch

*Signs of Faith covers disease and Nurgle

*Omens of War covers mounted combat (plus some soldiering) and Khorne

*Lure of Power covers nobility, intrigue, status and Slaanesh

Each comes with some actions and attacks for various chaos beasts and followers too. Each box is a treasure trove.

A word of advice: buy some collectible card album sheets. Have each player put their cards in them (if they don't just write things down). It solves any problems of disorganization and stuff getting scattered.

Yeah, or try the small 2x2 pocket books. They should cover the cards a typical character has. They're a bit pricey normally, but I picked up a stack of them cheap.

Edit: Found even smaller ones - http://www.miniaturemarket.com/upr84036.html

I've got the whole thing sleeved up and in Stanley removable bin storage. Works great so far.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001G1CUK0/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00005QWYF/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i03?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here's a video I did up just to show you how to make your play area a LOT smaller and a lot more manageable. It's just a quick rough video, but I think you'll get the idea. Maybe later I'll hook up pix of some card holders we've done.

But I LIKE the mess

As do I, and I really don't find it that messy once you've played a few games.

To each their own, but I would not want to play using the setup in the video above. It saves space but misses some of the nuance that comes from being able to quickly look around the table and see the current state of each character.

Oh, you can't even find the table usually for our group, but for people who need some suggestions for condensing things, I've got a couple more suggestions. Mostly, to let anyone know: Yes, it can be played even without a table while you're sitting on a couch without scattering cards everywhere

I've actually added stuff: If you watch the video you will see that we actually use metal coins (with warhammer empire provincial logos and all), fortune point cards, table tents, a stand for the party sheet (which we don't truly use), lots of 3D stuff on the table, etc.

All that is true, but I always felt that having a better character sheet with a condensed basic actions sheet really helps this game avoid having separate components for the likes of: career ability text, using the career sheet only for the talent socket, talent text, and tance meter. Gitzman's sheet solves several of those problems

jh

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound so judgmental. There are a lot of things you can do to change the set up and gameplay. My suggestion for Sinnara, or any new group, would be not worry about that so much and just see what does or does not work first.

Yeah, maybe you'll start with only a small area. Only put actions in their own places if they're actually going to be used. Some characters may be wimps who'd rather flee than ever get close enough to ever require block. dodge etc. I prefer only showing relevant actions anyway. Your group may be different (and full of control freaks .