I was making and advancing up a Commissar, went heavy on the social and command stuff and grabbed those 2 talents along with other essentials. but these two only affect Comrades and their fear results. Now initially I didn't even realize that was the case, i thought they'd be like the other games' versions of these talents. And then I read them and saw they affected only the comrades and I'm like, wait…I thought Comrades didn't even make fear rolls? And they don't, if their PC makes it, they make it, if their PC doesn't then they don't.

So then I'm thinking…ok maybe this is helpful. But it even says under comrades that if they become immune to pinning or fear somehow (which is basically what these Talents do), their options are still limited. So is it worth it to take these Talents? not just for a Commissar, but for anyone?

For what it's worth i definitely took a high level of Command plus Fellowship and took the Galvanizing Presence ability, that seems to be the best way to keep morale going, better than these two talents anyway. Plus the Commissar has a high WP, and Resistance to Fear and Unshakeable Faith and Nerves of Steel. So as long as the Commissar is ok, they should be able to cancel anyone else's fear .

A couple thoughts. First, consider that comrades who fail Fear Tests are automatically considered to have rolled 81-100 on the Shock Table, resulting in him fleeing at top speed away from combat until either combat ends or he is given a command to stand down. Thus, it could become very bad if a comrade, via his PC, fails his Fear Test. A PC who fails his Fear Test has a variable result on the Shock Table, and there could be a result where the PC gets left out in the wind while his comrade runs away.

Iron Discipline fixes this, as a comrade only fails a Fear Test if his PC fails and rolls doubles. That, by my fuzzy math, is only a 9% chance of failure. Into the Jaws of Hell is even better, because (in my reading) it affects ALL comrades, even those not belonging to the PC. Imagine if several of the squad's comrades begin running away directly into the commissar's 10m radius for Into the Jaws of Hell, and upon seeing the commissar, would rather face the source of their fear than a firing squad.

OK, I can see that. A good roll on the fear results and a PC can stay in the fight even, but comrades would always flee.

I guess that is worth it then, they're pretty economical for a Commissar also, as I recall they have 2 of the traits needed to get the cheapest cost for those. Combine that with the Galvanising Presence special ability and the others mentioned and you'd have a squad that is very unlikely to break.

Thanks!

I will say that as far as tier 3 talents go, Into the Jaws of Hell is pretty underwhelming.

Its purpose though, is still pretty clear:

-Not everyone is going to have Fearless, the pre-reqs for it are pretty high. Therefore people will be making Fear checks, and of course failing them
-A commissar can still fail the Terrify check, even with Galvanizing Presence. If the commissar doesn't have Fearless himself (remember, high pre-reqs), its even possible the commissar will be suffering Fear and cannot make the Terrify check.
-As soon as non-immune comrades suffer Fear and their turn comes around, they start fleeing. So if in turn order a commissar can't get the Terrify check off first, comrades have already broken cohesion and are sitting ducks.
-Into the Jaws of Hell works even if the possessor of the talent suffers Fear himself.

The key benefit of Into the Jaws of Hell is that it requires no test. It is an automatic success. And unlike Fearless, it doesn't impose some vague and nebulous idea that the possessor of the talent cannot flee without a check.

Iron Discipline is merely the personal level of Jaws.

As far as should a Commissar take it: personally, I would say no, its better left to a sergeant/commander type. A commissar (lacking a comrade of his own), would be wasting time with Iron Discipline, and paying far too much for Jaws. Of course, Sergeant's get Snap Out of It, which works about as well (although it still requires a test).

Iron Discipline/Jaws also require the "importance" of comrades. Which I feel is only really brought out when a Sergeant is rocking and rolling with the sweeping orders.

Also to be a bit cheeky, your GM probably will probably forget the comrades fear rule anyway haha