Hi All,

So, I've heard a lot of opinions. Still I haven't still found rules for my question.

Basically, any characteristic bonuses (like from Frenzy talent) apply before or after Unnatural Strength/Toughness?

It would be great to see some kind of rules reference.

The doubling from the Unnatural Characteristic trait is applied to the characteristic before bonuses are considered.

For example: If a marine has a base strength score of 45, it means his base SB with Unnatural Strength(x2) is 8 (note I used 45 as the example to show that the stat isn't truly "doubled" either). Then, because the marine has power armour that gives +20 to strength, his effective SB is 10.

Thank you, I've heard this opinion. But I need a reference to the rules, or FAQ. Do you know where it is covered?

You can look at how the strength bonus is calculated for the characters in the demo module. I don't have my book to provide an exact page number, but the wording should say something to the effect of "multiply first, add second".

Mrakvampire said:

The example block on page 136 of the main rulebook covers how to add the bonus from power armour to your characteristic. I believe a player has asked the question to the rules fellows and/or the community came to a concensus long ago concerning all bonuses.

P. 25 - Characteristic BOnuses

"A Characteristic Bonus equals the tens digit of the Characteristic score."

P. 136 Unnatural Characteristic

"select a Characteristic, and double its bonus."

P. 119 Frenzy

"+10 bonus to… [Characteristics]"

P. 161 Enhanced Strength

" Increase the Battle-Brother's Strength by +20. The effect on SB is calculated after the Unnatual Strength multiplier."

Emphasis mine.

P. 202 The Core Mechanic

"-Determine the Skill or Characteristic to test…-Add or subtract any relevant modifiers."

Alright. PCs have Characteristics. Characteristics are measured as being 0-100 (p. 25). The 10's digit of a PC's characteristic is its associated "bonus." Unnatural Trait doubles the Characteristic's bonus.

It is important to distinguish here that it does not multiply the Characteristic itself to determine this bonus. It just takes the flat number, and doubles it. E.g. with a x2 Unnatural Characteristic 3 goes to 6, 4 goes to 8. It is unfortunate that the rules don't provide a base example of a characteristic like "46" having an Unnatural Trait bonus of 8 over 9.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/deathwatch/minisite/support/final-sanction-additional-characters-1.pdf

Shows characters with a base Characteristic of 49, and an Unnatural bonus of 8.

Next, let us consider the effects of bonuses and other modifiers to a characteristic outside of the standard +5 Characteristic Advances.

As referenced above, there are two distinctly different ways a stat can be increased:

-A bonus (the most common)
-An increase

A bonus is applied on top of the characteristic, at the point a relevent test is made, and is not a part of the Characteristic for the puspose of Unnatural Traits. In other words, the Unnatural Characteristic trait is applied at the point of the first step on the Core Mechanic(p. 202), while the majority of effects add in at the second step. An increase is added directly to the characteristic at all times.

Power Armour is a distinctly different modifier, but it specifically states it does not multiply.

Here is the official clarification from the FFG rules gurus:

"All additive modifiers to Characteristics are applied AFTER multiplicative modifiers. This is true of the bonus to Strength gained from a Battle-Brother's Power Armour as well as any other additive modifiers."

So only a character's starting or base strength is multiplied by Unnatural Strength. All addative strength bonuses afterwards are added after taking Unnatural Strength into consideration. Multiply first, then add.