So, because I cannot get my hands on real dice (yes, I will beat the horse) I haven't been able to test this myself, but a good friend of mine has been running a few sessions of the Beta at our FLGS (He has the money to buy a smart phone and thus the dice app, yes, I will flog THAT horse too).

While he LOVES the system and the freedoms and opportunities it provides, he has noted that Force Powers seem to be a bit of a Deux ex Machina. Apparently once you invoke Force Powers, there's no chance of failure or fumble. It always works and it's an always do.

Is he wrong? Is he right? Should it be that way? Should there be more "balance to the Force" as it were? Particularly in this era where Force Powers ae rare and most young Force users are not formally or properly trained?

This issue has been discussed at great length, especially whether or not there should be some form of resistance against the Force. I suggest combing through the forums or doing some targeted searches.

Corradus said:

First question, is he using Force Powers as per the Week 2 Update? Because there is a huge gulf between how the Force worked before and after that update.

In a nutshell, the Week 2 Update made it so that you needed multiple Force Points to activate your various upgrades, and the mind trick (1st Influence Control Upgade) and telekinetic attack (1st Move Control Upgrade) now include an opposed roll.

Prior to that, Force powers were way too reliable and thus far too powerful, as GM Chris gave a stellar example of this with a starting-level character that had bought the Move power and several upgrades, and with a single Force Point could dish out 20 damage to multiple targets at once out to medium range, taking down pretty much anything in this guy's path with no resistance roll at all.

So while the basic features of a Force Power are pretty reliable, going beyond those basic abilities is less of a sure thing, particularly if you've only got a single Force Die to roll.

However, as the Force-user gets more accomplished (i.e. raises their Force Rating), then activating Force Powers will be more and more of a sure thing, which fits the setting as how often do we see veteran Force-users flub basic usages of the Force? The only time we see Yoda fail at an application of the Force is when going up against Sidious in RotS, who is just as powerful if the little green dude. We see Luke struggle in ESB to retrieve his lightsaber, but he's also considered to be largely self-taught (a Force-Sensitive Exile?) at that point, and only starting becoming really proficient with the broader aspects of the Force after Yoda started training him. How often did we see post-TPM Kenobi botch a fairly basic attempt at telekinesis?

Now if you've read the KOTOR series of comics (which I strongly recommend, particularly the early half of the run), the lead character isn't always successful at Force usage, but he's also noted as having a "strange connection to the Force," but Zayne's probably the leading exception in "Force-wielding lead characters," and he doesnt' become a Knight until well into the series. We do have an example of Qui-Gon (a veteran Jedi Master) flubbing his attempt to mind-trick Watto, but that got ret-conned into Watto's species being able to resist Jedi mind tricks similar to how Hutts are unaffected, but he's got no problem bashing battle droids with a wave of his hand.

Of course, this also brings up the current concern that Force-users can't progress past a Force Rating of 2 with the rules presented, though ostensibly the options available will be expanded upon, either in the final version of EotE, in supplements, or ultimately in the Force & Destiny book. So there's always going to be that element of failure if you try to use too many Upgrades at one time. Picking up a man-sized crate and floating it a few meters away? Not to difficult for a Force-user with a Force Rating of 2. Hurling a trio of man-size crates at a pack of goons that are a dozen meters away? That's gonna be a very tall order for that same Force-user.

Corradus said:

It would really help if you could be a bit more specific about what force powers he's talking about.

Regardless, in the current RAW, you can't exceed FR2. With two force dice, there is a (7/12)(7/12) = 49/144 = 34% chance of getting no light pips. I feel a 66% chance of success is a long way from a "sure thing" or invoking "Deus Ex Machina".

You can spend destiny points to change Dark pips to light, but this represents a character directly calling on the dark side, which is some seriously bad ju-ju.

If you're talking about Sense's combat-oriented control upgrades, the advantages they provide are substantial, but not game breaking.

-WJL

Donovan Morningfire said:

Hey, thanks a lot, that was very helpful

Corradus said:

You're welcome.