first question considering that in some adventures they will be a lot gunfight and that lot of munition will be spend and considering that acolytes don't earn a lot of thrones why figthing for the inquisition? i mean i have a arbitrator, can't the arbites paid for my bullets or the inquisition? why it should be me?

same question who must paid the rent of an appartement in a hive the acolytes or the inquisition?

does the gamesmaster gives to the players a certain amount of thrones to use for the investigation and thus alowing the acolytes to keep their money?

maybe these question are stupides but i think that how money is earn and spend s better defined in warhammer than in dark heresy.

i also wonder why equipements does not change throughout progression. i take the exemple of my arbitrator at the firt level it as basic equipement but in the progression table there iis only skills and talents not equipements. let say that my arbitrator goes throug the level regulator there no indication in the progression table about which weapons it can have acces. I find that il will help a lot to show it . as an example a regulator could have acces to complete carapace and a heavy stubber.

again who will pay for this equipement because if througt his work a arbitrator have to pay for his carapace armor and his heavy stubber and not the arbites or the inquisition i think that there will be a lot of desertion.

The answer to this question generally is "whatever your Inquisitor feels like", which translates to "whatever your GM feels like".

The first question is whether the characters remain in their old jobs. For some (e.g. Guardsmen) this is highly unlikely - your Inquisitor won't exactly be happy when he hears that his acolyte has just been transferred off planet, so it's likely he'll remove him from the regular Imperial Guard regiments.

Then, it's absolutely up to the inquisitor what toys he hands out for free and what stuff the acolytes have to buy. If he thinks that the dregs he has conscripted should prove their worth on their own, he might be rather stingy. On the other hand side, he might also provide them with whatever he thinks they might need.

Myself, I'll go between the extremes when GMing: The acolytes will have to use their own money, but the inquisitor (or other parties interested in the cell) may hand out certain goodies the PCs would never be able to afford on their own when they feel it is appropriate. Also, they'll sometimes have access to hidden caches of weaponry or other equipment the Inquisitor thinks they need.

A smart Inquisitor provides his/her acolytes with the things that will be vital to competing their assignment. A wise Inquisitor doesn't discourage his/her acolytes from using ther own money to resupply. These two things can give you the idea of how they pay for their stuff.

As for their Ordo of origin paying for thier stuff, they no longer really work for thier original Ordo.

First of all, take it a bit easy with the topic names there, I'm sure "money and equipment" or something like that would have sufficed.

Now down to business, to answer the question in the topic name: acolytes do not need to pay for everything out of their own pockets, it's up to the GM, as Cifer says. If you turn to page 125 in the core rulebook you'll see something called Acolyte Stipend that deals with this. These stipends can reflect the Inquisitor's opinion of his acolytes worth, and suggest such things as a small raise in their monthly income or a regular ammo supply.

I'm not sure why you think you're not given any information as to what armour and weapons you have access to throughout your career path, well ok armour maybe because it doesn't take any training to equip and use armour, but training with different types of weapons are learned through talents. It is absolutely possible to have a regulator armed with a heavy stubber because in the regulator advances you'll find the talent Heavy Weapon Training (SP), and a heavy stubber falls under the categories Heavy and Solid Projectile (SP). When it comes to actually having the weapon or armour in question that would be a case of money and availability. Maybe your Inquisitor doesn't think highly enough of a simple rank 3 (regulator) to give him a heavy stubber and a complete carapace armour free of charge.

Further, why equipment isn't just given out at certain ranks is, for the most part, because the Careers (despite rank titles) are generic. Someone playing a character in the Arbitrator career very well might be playing a member of the Adaptus Arbites. However, they could also be playing a member of the Scintilian Magistratum, an Enforcer from Dreah, a bounty hunter, a freelance espionage agent, a Royal Malfian Court Watcher, or anything else the GM or player can come up with. With such a broad range of possible characters and actual careers that fall under the Arbiters umbrella, arbitrarily handing out equipment simply wouldn't fit too well. Beyond that, there's also the question as to whether the character remains with their founding organization upon becoming and acolyte or not.

It's simply much easier to deal with such things on a case by case basis as opposed to setting a blanket precedent.

As pointed out by others, how a character gets their hands on equipment will vary from character to character and Inquisitor to Inquisitor. That is to say, what ever makes sense in the characters given situation is how they get their gear.

Aye, I think Graver makes a good point on the equipment issue. And you can use the weapon Talents you gain access to when you rank up as a guide to potentially available equipment.

I'm starting to wonder though if the whole Income system presented in the main rulebook isn't just problematic. I've been looking through it, trying to figure out some questions of my own. Take a look at the Services section on page 152. It lists Mid Grade Accommodations as 20 Thrones per night. Looking at the Income table on page 124, we see that a beginning Noble makes 500 Thrones a month. Using an average 30 day month, that means average accommodations would cost 600 thrones a month, 100 more than a starting Noble brings in! A Noble! And that's not even adding in food or transportation or entertainment. Sure, the info on Services says these numbers are just a rough guideline, still it seems pretty skewed to me.

Now one could argue that most of this stuff gets hand-waved anyway, but if they're going to include such information in the book, it'd be nice if the Income and price numbers were in proportion with each other. Also, things like this can matter in play, if PCs somehow get cut off from their Inquisitor (and =I= funds), or even in the very common occurance of bribes. I'm thinkining the whole economics side of the game might need a rewrite, but have no idea how to go about doing it.

But going back to the original question concerning the kinds of equipment available: One solution would be to ignore the cost issue altogether. Just use the Availability mechanic to determine what you can and cannont find, and how long it will take. Assume that the Inquisition will automatically pay for any equipment found - though not including things that are "Very Rare", and also assuming that the PC puts in the proper requisition form (making Adept PCs suddenly more valuable!). This would still be subject to the GM's approval of course. Anyway, this isn't a perfect solution, just one idea.

theDevilofWormwood said:

Wormwood, I dig your thought process with just going with Availability and to hell with the money system. I've always felt that it was not only a bit borked to begin with but wasn't really appropriate for Dark Heresy.

Based on some home brew rules posted on Dark Reign HERE , I made a system that eliminated the monetary aspect from acquiring gear and still managed to emphasize a character's resources whether it be money, privilege, favors, just knowing the right people, or anything else.

I posted a complete write up in the House rules section HERE if it's in case it's something you or anyone else having issues with the current monetary system think you might find useful as a whole or in parts.

from france

i have seen here very good opinions. you are right about the career paths of an acolytes my arbitrator can be an adpetus arbites or a royal scourge so the question could be does he be requisition by the inquistion but still working for is original organisation? in this case how his rank is define? i mean if we take the example of fishig godwyn from the novels "eisenhorn" what will be his rank in game term and in the inquisition and the arbites? it's clear in the novel that he left the adeptus for the inquistion so he doesn't have any rank anymore in it. it also clear that it takes his gears with him. what troubles me is that the ranks don't seems to be so abstract. i don't see how an inquisitor could bestows the rank of enforcer with the responsabilities, gears, money and so on to someone who left the adeptus arbites and it 's the same problemes for every carreer path. i don't think that an inquisitor have the understanding of the inner working of each carrer chosen by his accolytes much less the autority to bestows it.

i talk about gun fight just look at the price of ammo packs and then look at the income of the differents carreer. it doesn't hurt you that without the support from the inquistion no one will be able to by enough ammo to survive a intensive gunfight? and the price for food is more absurd it means that any npc can't pay is food for a month. i think the game is very light on economic logic.

good game to you

Our group roleplays it out.

First we're given a stipend at the beginning of the mission. Anything for the mission that is in excess of the stipend we buy out of pocket. At the end of the story we submit our "receipts" along with our after-action reports and justification for the purchases. If we can justify the purchase in context of our completed mission, then we get reinbursed. If we can't, we don't. This also means that if we bought something out of stipend that wasn't justified, we pay our Inquisitor.

So we rent an Aquila Lander for a job that took place only in Gunmetal City may be very **** hard to justify, but one that occured between the Lathe Worlds may be much easier.

Our biggest expenses traditionally have been transportation (especially if our investigation is between worlds), ammo, and cost of living (room, board), and items for general maintenance and repairs like gun maintenance kits.

We also get "prizes" for doing a job well done as determined by the GM. Generally at the end of the story he'll give us exp and "credit" to allow us to buy some of the more expensive things. If enough credit is awarded (and yes we can save it between stories) we can turn the credit in for a fate point (he doesn't give out fatepoints.) Don't ask me his formula for the credit, I don't think he has one.

Xanthess- If nothing else, you can show the players what a bad idea it would be to get a credit card in real life.

Our source of better equipment has most often been the spoils of war, to paraphrase a quote from the movie "The Chronicles of Riddick": We keep what we kill . I'm not really sure what most of our money is used for but we seem to be almost broke nearly all the time. Before our inquisitor tried to kill us what we mostly received from her was transport from planet to planet and a bed in the living quarters of her ship. I never thought we were treated unfairly in those regards, well except maybe for the trying-to-kill-us part.

theDevilofWormwood said:

It should be remembered that what we're talking about in regards to the accomodations entries in the services section are more akin to hotel rooms than renting a flat...

I've found that the simplest method is to simply assume that the "income" values are post-expenses. The character (be he player, or non-player) is fed, watered and has a place to stay under most circumstances, so the money that's left is his to spend. The Imperium, afterall, isn't the capitalist society that many of us are all-too-familiar with.

As for money and equipment... In my game, the 'income' is a retainer fee given to an inactive group. They only get it for the downtime between missions (several months between missions in most cases, during which time they can train, look for more unusual equipment, form networks of contacts, do long-term research or other things that'd be inappropriate to roleplay in the midst of an undercover investigation). Actual missions are rewarded according to success, and the pay there is substantial (several hundred to a thousand each in most cases) if the job was well-done. The reason the Inquisitor pays in money is because it gives the individual acolytes the freedom to equip themselves however they want, as well as giving them the means to pay off informants, bribe officials, fund stakeouts and so forth.

A stack of requisition forms and access to an armoury doesn't have that freedom, by comparison.

Ira said:

Oh yeah, and worse is the fact that our reimbursement doesn't come right away either, so if we tap out all our personal savings right away, we're aweful short on funds the next couple of missions until our regular pay and our reinbursements come through.]

A mission that was supposed to last only a little bit on a single world, in a single city that expands to include three or four worlds and multiple cities on each world, fighting an ever increasingly strong cult base can get very very expensive.

My priest now officially hates corpse starch rations.

Some great and very sensible answers above. I just thought I'd add how I'm doing stuff with my players.

At the outset, they get very little money - even less than their monthly income! This is to encourage them to get into the roleplaying aspects of the game (as they're all new to RPGs and admit to being a bit heavy on the combat side). They've already learned to loot their opponents, haggle with marketeers and beg their senior agents for extra kit and cash.

I due course I'll raise their stipends but, as long as they're working as a team, they'll have it paid into a team pool that they then have to debate how to spend most constructively. If a player wants something particularly expensive or rare then he has to RP the acquisition. Even though we've only just started our first adventure, my scum player is already looking for every oppotunity to scam new stuff and, in due course, I'll encourage him to make contacts such as fences, dealers, black marketeers and collectors. This was, after all, why the Inquisitor took him on in the first place...

R.

I just assume a few things about the default income system.

a) Nobody outright fires a member of the Inquisition so players keep their cover/day job. So while income may not be on par with a full-time worker/scum, you still have some extra funds coming in for downtime expenses and extra purchases.

b) The Inquisition provides the rest.

So the gang lord rank scum might not have a vast fortune but he hardly has time for running an empire while off chasing daemons. I just assume his gang lord title means that his fellow scum contacts would think twice before they dare mess with him because of how bad ass he's become.

If you really had to have a monetary system there was a somewhat decent one in the D20 Modern books that basically got rid of money entirely. Essentially you had a Monetary worth value to your character and you could buy anything under that value without penalty... within reason of course.. 5 Clips of ammo no big deal... 10000 clips of ammo is a little far fetched. Anyway if you bought something that was equal to your monetary value, your overall value was decreased. If you bought something more expensive then your overall value went down by one more than the difference between your value and the cost of the item. As you sold items it was roughly similar except when selling you didn't get the full value of the item. I think you got half the difference added to your value.

The only problem is now you have to go come up with values for all the items in the book.

Anyway, I think thats how they did it... it made for getting rid of the money hastle but a GM also had to be careful because there was always the opportunity for players to game the system.

Until I become comfortable with the DH system I will most likely just use what they have provided in the system.

I agree ithe income system makes no sense, it really does need a re-write. I do not understand given a acolyte works for the inquisition and like any goverment special operations team I think would be given all the needed money and tools (weapons etc) to get the job done. Rare and special items would be given as rewards for exempalary service and rewards for promoitions in rank.

But to be honest, if a party has a good relationship with thier inquisitor there is NOTHING they cuold not get, the inquisitor after all has LIMITLESS authority and money.

We play it both ways and have not found it to be mutually exclusive.

On the one hand can attempt to requisition items from the ordos or their career path. Generally the GM requires us to submit the forms in writing (we made up a bunch based of the forms in the munitorium book). He then adjudicates on whether or not we get it based on rank, location, availability etc, etc. Generally this is how we get basic gear and ammo. Anything more than that, and your adept toon will get to find out how strong his kung-fu is.

The really neat gear it is up to the character to get their hands on (though special rewards from the inquisitor are possible). We get money from our income, selling loot, investments (we came up with a basic investment system with the merchant noble character as the gateway to such things) and any other schemes we can come up with (we have all learned not to ask to closely what the scum is up to as long as he shares, and besides his contacts are a great source of information).

Works well and we have alot of fun with it. We have already had an adventure to protect our investments in our nobles merchant house.